Punt questions

fredhjr

09-09-16 NFHS--Two questions re: punt plays. 1. R, with back to the ball (it has crossed the NZ) is touched by the ball. Is this considered a muff? 2. Legal fair catch signal is given, then ball hits the ground before being fielded by the player that gave the signal. Is the fair catch off once the ball hits the ground?

jTheUmp

fredhjr wrote
09-09-16 NFHS--Two questions re: punt plays. 1. R, with back to the ball (it has crossed the NZ) is touched by the ball. Is this considered a muff? 2. Legal fair catch signal is given, then ball hits the ground before being fielded by the player that gave the signal. Is the fair catch off once the ball hits the ground?

1) Yes, unless the R player was forced into the ball due to a block by a K player (if in doubt, the R player was forced)

2) Once a valid fair catch signal is given, as it was in this situation, the ball is dead as soon as it's recovered by either K or R.

Robert Goodman

fredhjr wrote
09-09-16 NFHS--Two questions re: punt plays. 1. R, with back to the ball (it has crossed the NZ) is touched by the ball. Is this considered a muff?

No, it's not a muff in any of the major codes that use that term, because the player was not trying to gain possession of the ball. What consequence are you interested in such that it would matter whether or not it was a muff?

2. Legal fair catch signal is given, then ball hits the ground before being fielded by the player that gave the signal. Is the fair catch off once the ball hits the ground?

It's off in the sense that a fair catch can no longer be made.

fredhjr

I am interested in the touch on the back of R making the ball recoverable by either team. Would it be?? Or not?

Robert Goodman

fredhjr wrote
I am interested in the touch on the back of R making the ball recoverable by either team. Would it be?? Or not?

The ball may be recovered without penalty by either team, the only question being which team is awarded possession on the ball's becoming dead. By 2-44, "touching" the ball includes cases of being touched by it.

The only exception on the provision regarding possession applicable to touching of a scrimmage kick by a player of R on R's side of the expanded neutral zone would be in case an opponent caused the touching. So after the ball touches the R player in his back, players of either team may recover & retain possession for their team (1st down), but if a player of K recovers it, the ball is dead.

I can think of one other exception, though it seems unlikely: If that player of R with his back to the ball was hit by the kick because it was low, that touching can be ignored. How often would it come up that a player of the receiving team would have his back to the kick, and be hit by a low, possibly bounding ball that never got far off the ground, without a player of K's having blocked him into its path (which would already cause the touching to be ignored)?