Matt robbie wroteA view we DO have: Pretend Plate Ump only called dead ball - go to first. Defense appeals to Base Ump. Are you really saying you would have ruled a swing? If I could see the same thing I saw on replay, then yes. The view behind the mound in real-time, I was uncertain (thus, I would have HBP.)
jicecone Borderline on the swing but, either way he made it to first and PU did a good job selling the call. Then again I had the pleasure of watching the replay 3 times. PU made a decision and that was that.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. JJ wroteI watched it live and, at the time, my first thought was "no swing". After watching the replay multiple times, I still have no swing. At the time it happened I commented to the folks I was watching with that "the umpire just really screwed up, but he sold it well". I was taught in umpire school years ago that ultimately we are supposed to judge if the batter actually offered at the pitch. Many years later the NCAA added the caveat of "did the barrel of the bat pass the front hip"? Yes, this is Little League (not pro ball or NCAA), but from my perspective, I still have no swing. JJ The one thing that you forgot from umpiring school is to never comment about another umpire's call to a group of non-umpires and therefore do not throw your brother umpire under the bus! MTD, Sr.
Matt JJ wroteI watched it live and, at the time, my first thought was "no swing". After watching the replay multiple times, I still have no swing. At the time it happened I commented to the folks I was watching with that "the umpire just really screwed up, but he sold it well". I was taught in umpire school years ago that ultimately we are supposed to judge if the batter actually offered at the pitch. Many years later the NCAA added the caveat of "did the barrel of the bat pass the front hip"? Yes, this is Little League (not pro ball or NCAA), but from my perspective, I still have no swing. JJ That is not what NCAA means. What that means is that if the barrel passed the hip, it is by definition a swing. It can be a swing even if it doesn't.
ozzy6900 robbie wroteA view we DO have: Pretend Plate Ump only called dead ball - go to first. Defense appeals to Base Ump. Are you really saying you would have ruled a swing? Absolutely! Look at the video in real time. The only reason the batter was HBP was because he chose to attempt a swing. Yes, he pulled back and if he was never hit, there would have been no swing. But by attempting, he moved his arm into the pitch and that is how I would have ruled it.
bigda65 So he pulled back, which I think you agree that was no offer, but the pitch hit him, so now it is an offer? So if the pitch didn't hit him, you would have had ball 4 and no offer?
Matt ozzy6900 wroteAbsolutely! Look at the video in real time. The only reason the batter was HBP was because he chose to attempt a swing. Yes, he pulled back and if he was never hit, there would have been no swing. But by attempting, he moved his arm into the pitch and that is how I would have ruled it. bigda65 wroteSo he pulled back, which I think you agree that was no offer, but the pitch hit him, so now it is an offer? So if the pitch didn't hit him, you would have had ball 4 and no offer? I'm really not sure why this discussion is occurring. He never pulled back.
ozzy6900 Matt wroteI'm really not sure why this discussion is occurring. He never pulled back. Because we have people that don't understand how to umpire yet. They think that relying on replays, intuition and announcers is the way to do it, instead of officiating on what happened. They'll give up soon.
bigda65 So far we have, Yes.. Ozzy, Matt, Mark T. (I think yes), CT1 (I think yes) No.. Robbie, Mbilica, Bigda, Rich, JJ. And Im not sure about Bob J and Jicecone 5 to 4, split decision, so I guess we will agree to disagree.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. bigda65 wroteSo far we have, Yes.. Ozzy, Matt, Mark T. (I think yes), CT1 (I think yes) No.. Robbie, Mbilica, Bigda, Rich, JJ. And Im not sure about Bob J and Jicecone 5 to 4, split decision, so I guess we will agree to disagree. I am yes, and Junior also says yes. MTD, Sr.
MD Longhorn I'm a little late to this too ... but I have no swing. And honestly ... I don't even have CLOSE to a swing and I'm a little stunned that at least one person posting here that my brain automatically registers as "always right" when he has something to say ... is calling this a swing. One thing that does bother me though ... on both sides of the argument --- there's a lot of completely irrelevant elements being used to justify peoples calls (both ways).
JJ Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wroteThe one thing that you forgot from umpiring school is to never comment about another umpire's call to a group of non-umpires and therefore do not throw your brother umpire under the bus! MTD, Sr. Gee, I'm so sorry. I thought we were posting opinions of what we saw. I'll never do it again.
MD Longhorn JJ wroteGee, I'm so sorry. I thought we were posting opinions of what we saw. I'll never do it again.You completely missed his point. He was not calling you out for discussing the call HERE. He was calling you out for your own statement that you derided the umpire to your friends.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. JJ wroteGee, I'm so sorry. I thought we were posting opinions of what we saw. I'll never do it again. It is one thing to make your comment here on the Forum, but you admitted that you made the comment, which based upon your description, was to a group of non-umpires. If you did, in fact, make that statement to a group of non-umpires, you did throw one of your brethren under the bus. MTD, Sr.
JJ MD Longhorn wroteYou completely missed his point. He was not calling you out for discussing the call HERE. He was calling you out for your own statement that you derided the umpire to your friends. Hmmm. The "folks" I was watching it with ARE umpires, so he shouldn't read into my statement that they were NOT. If I'm guilty of bus-throwing, then so is everyone else who says he didn't go, because they're also saying he missed the call and are telling "folks" the umpire got it wrong. I still don't think the batter offered at the pitch, and if that's throwing someone under the bus because he thought he DID offer, well... JJ