bigda65 At first, I thought he judged the ball hit him in the strike zone, I did not think he offered in real time. Kudos to the umpire, he was pointing immediately and I heard him say "that was a swing" My vote is no offer.
Matt Let me point out something which is the biggest reason I have a swing... He was still swinging when the ball hit him. That will always be an offer in my book.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Matt wroteLet me point out something which is the biggest reason I have a swing... He was still swinging when the ball hit him. That will always be an offer in my book. Your post beat me to the punch. MTD, Sr.
CT1 Matt wroteLet me point out something which is the biggest reason I have a swing... He was still swinging when the ball hit him. That will always be an offer in my book. Great answer, and one that I'll add to my repertoire.
bigda65 Matt, My two cents, this pitch is borderline in the batters box = benefit of the doubt goes to the batter. But for discussion sake, take the pitch completely out of the equation, lets say we put it at eye level directly above the plate, would you still judge an offer?
ozzy6900 bigda65 wroteMatt, My two cents, this pitch is borderline in the batters box = benefit of the doubt goes to the batter. It doesn't matter, the pitch was not in the batter's box and the batter offered. bigda65 wroteMatt, But for discussion sake, take the pitch completely out of the equation, lets say we put it at eye level directly above the plate, would you still judge an offer? We as umpires do not have this view so the point is mute.
bigda65 Ozzy, Not trying to start an argument, but the ball is above his left knee, and his knee is really close to the inside of the line. Ball may not be completely inside the line of the batters box. More of the ball is in the box than not.
robbie ozzy6900 wrote We as umpires do not have this view so the point is mute. A view we DO have: Pretend Plate Ump only called dead ball - go to first. Defense appeals to Base Ump. Are you really saying you would have ruled a swing?
Matt bigda65 wroteMatt, My two cents, this pitch is borderline in the batters box = benefit of the doubt goes to the batter. But for discussion sake, take the pitch completely out of the equation, lets say we put it at eye level directly above the plate, would you still judge an offer? Yes. There is no benefit of the doubt...he was still swinging. This is one criterion where I do find it black-and-white--if the batter is still going when the pitch hits him, it is an offer.
Matt robbie wroteA view we DO have: Pretend Plate Ump only called dead ball - go to first. Defense appeals to Base Ump. Are you really saying you would have ruled a swing? If I could see the same thing I saw on replay, then yes. The view behind the mound in real-time, I was uncertain (thus, I would have HBP.)
jicecone Borderline on the swing but, either way he made it to first and PU did a good job selling the call. Then again I had the pleasure of watching the replay 3 times. PU made a decision and that was that.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. JJ wroteI watched it live and, at the time, my first thought was "no swing". After watching the replay multiple times, I still have no swing. At the time it happened I commented to the folks I was watching with that "the umpire just really screwed up, but he sold it well". I was taught in umpire school years ago that ultimately we are supposed to judge if the batter actually offered at the pitch. Many years later the NCAA added the caveat of "did the barrel of the bat pass the front hip"? Yes, this is Little League (not pro ball or NCAA), but from my perspective, I still have no swing. JJ The one thing that you forgot from umpiring school is to never comment about another umpire's call to a group of non-umpires and therefore do not throw your brother umpire under the bus! MTD, Sr.
Matt JJ wroteI watched it live and, at the time, my first thought was "no swing". After watching the replay multiple times, I still have no swing. At the time it happened I commented to the folks I was watching with that "the umpire just really screwed up, but he sold it well". I was taught in umpire school years ago that ultimately we are supposed to judge if the batter actually offered at the pitch. Many years later the NCAA added the caveat of "did the barrel of the bat pass the front hip"? Yes, this is Little League (not pro ball or NCAA), but from my perspective, I still have no swing. JJ That is not what NCAA means. What that means is that if the barrel passed the hip, it is by definition a swing. It can be a swing even if it doesn't.
ozzy6900 robbie wroteA view we DO have: Pretend Plate Ump only called dead ball - go to first. Defense appeals to Base Ump. Are you really saying you would have ruled a swing? Absolutely! Look at the video in real time. The only reason the batter was HBP was because he chose to attempt a swing. Yes, he pulled back and if he was never hit, there would have been no swing. But by attempting, he moved his arm into the pitch and that is how I would have ruled it.
bigda65 So he pulled back, which I think you agree that was no offer, but the pitch hit him, so now it is an offer? So if the pitch didn't hit him, you would have had ball 4 and no offer?
Matt ozzy6900 wroteAbsolutely! Look at the video in real time. The only reason the batter was HBP was because he chose to attempt a swing. Yes, he pulled back and if he was never hit, there would have been no swing. But by attempting, he moved his arm into the pitch and that is how I would have ruled it. bigda65 wroteSo he pulled back, which I think you agree that was no offer, but the pitch hit him, so now it is an offer? So if the pitch didn't hit him, you would have had ball 4 and no offer? I'm really not sure why this discussion is occurring. He never pulled back.
ozzy6900 Matt wroteI'm really not sure why this discussion is occurring. He never pulled back. Because we have people that don't understand how to umpire yet. They think that relying on replays, intuition and announcers is the way to do it, instead of officiating on what happened. They'll give up soon.
bigda65 So far we have, Yes.. Ozzy, Matt, Mark T. (I think yes), CT1 (I think yes) No.. Robbie, Mbilica, Bigda, Rich, JJ. And Im not sure about Bob J and Jicecone 5 to 4, split decision, so I guess we will agree to disagree.