Interference, or no? How many outs?

teebob21

ASA 16A. Three umpires. Loser's bracket game, eight teams remaining on Saturday. I am U3.

1 out, R1 on 1B. A relatively routine grounder is hit to F6 and thrown to 2B to F4 for the force out. As F4 turns and begins to release the ball from her glove to throw to 1B, R1 slides into 2B, contacting F4's feet (still on the top of the base) with her feet, and knocking F4 to the ground hard.

EDIT for clarification: The BR is still two+ steps from 1B when this occurs.

What is your call?

RKBUmp

Nothing.

BlueDevilRef

Dead ball. Interference by retired runner. So, batter runner is out. This is 16U (high school) softball, not Major League Baseball.

RKBUmp

So now a runner cannot stay upright, cannot continue in a straight line to the base, cannot slide into the base and cannot turn out of the way without being called for interference in any situation?

CecilOne

teebob21 wrote
ASA 16A. Three umpires. Loser's bracket game, eight teams remaining on Saturday. I am U3.

1 out, R1 on 1B. A relatively routine grounder is hit to F6 and thrown to 2B to F4 for the force out. As F4 turns and begins to release the ball from her glove to throw to 1B, R1 slides into 2B, contacting F4's feet (still on the top of the base) with her feet, and knocking F4 to the ground hard.

What is your call?

Was the play close at 2nd or was there a possible retired runner?
I guess that is what you are asking?

teebob21

CecilOne wrote
Was the play close at 2nd or was there a possible retired runner?
I guess that is what you are asking?

The play at second was not particularly close, regular hammer out. The contact was made by R1 after she was retired.

This play generated a lot of discussion this week. I know, HTBT, and I'll post my ruling next post. I wanted to see what the board thought.

umpjim

teebob21 wrote
The play at second was not particularly close, regular hammer out. The contact was made by R1 after she was retired.

This play generated a lot of discussion this week. I know, HTBT, and I'll post my ruling next post. I wanted to see what the board thought.

Does ASA softball have the same comment as OBR does regarding interference by a retired runner? Continuing to run the bases is not interference by that act alone. Sliding into a base is continuing to run the bases.

RKBUmp

umpjim wrote
Does ASA softball have the same comment as OBR does regarding interference by a retired runner? Continuing to run the bases is not interference by that act alone. Sliding into a base is continuing to run the bases.

I believe the statement in asa is continuing to run the bases after being put out and drawing a throw may be considered an act of interference.

IRISHMAFIA

RKBUmp wrote
Nothing.

^^^ This. And only this.

BoomerSooner

I don't think there is a call to be made here (except for the out on the on R1), unless by chance the slide was malicious or illegal in some way. Without seeing the slide, my first inclination is to assume it is a routine slide where the play is close enough for the runner to justify sliding.

That said, after reading the OP again, I could see an interpretation of the play that has the runner initiating the slide late (as in too close to the bag such that it is interpreted as malicious) or unnecessarily sliding (as in the runner had time to stop and peel away or kneel to get avoid interfering). In those cases, you could call interference. My gut is still telling me this wasn't one of those instances and thus not interference.

teebob21

Looks like I am on the losing end of this one. I ruled INT, runner and BR out. It seemed pretty cut-and-dried to me. This was the most obvious attempt to take out a fielder with the ball I'd ever seen in JO play. It seems odd to me that a runner sliding hard into a fielder and knocking her down, preventing a play, is not a case of INT when a runner on her feet who doesn't even make contact with a fielder can be called for INT.

Dakota

teebob21 wrote
Looks like I am on the losing end of this one. I ruled INT, runner and BR out. It seemed pretty cut-and-dried to me. This was the most obvious attempt to take out a fielder with the ball I'd ever seen in JO play. It seems odd to me that a runner sliding hard into a fielder and knocking her down, preventing a play, is not a case of INT when a runner on her feet who doesn't even make contact with a fielder can be called for INT.

Well, you are up against the axiom that a legal slide is always legal contact. Was the slide legal? NFHS defines an illegal slide; ASA does not. If she was sliding into the fielder rather than sliding to acquire the base... ?? You saw it, we didn't.

MD Longhorn

BlueDevilRef wrote
Dead ball. Interference by retired runner. So, batter runner is out. This is 16U (high school) softball, not Major League Baseball.

Wrong. She did exactly as she is supposed to do. She cannot remain upright, cannot veer to the side.

MD Longhorn

RKBUmp wrote
I believe the statement in asa is continuing to run the bases after being put out and drawing a throw may be considered an act of interference.

This applies if she runs to a base AFTER being put out and someone throws the ball to try to put her out again. Nothing like this scenario.

Andy

ASA Rule Supplement 13....Crash Interference

This talks about remaining upright and crashing into a fielder with the ball.
There is a statement in the RS which reads.....A runner may slide into the fielder.

As described, I have nothing on the OP

teebob21

Andy, what about RS #33? "Defensive players must be given the opportunity to field the ball anywhere on the playing field or throw the ball without being hindered."

Also, 8-7-P.

RKBUmp

Every act of contact on the field is not necessarily interference or obstruction. If F4 had just received the throw from F6 and was turning to throw, what are we talking, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of a second tops? The runner would be fairly close to 2nd at that point and cannot just disappear. Are you expecting the runner to just give themselves up on what may appear to be a routine out? What if F6 didnt field the ball cleanly? What if F4 bobbled the ball while catching it? The runner did exactly what they should have and slid into 2nd base. Contact is going to happen on a softball field and as I said, it is not always interference or obstruction. The case book is full of situations where it is neither and is just playing action.

IRISHMAFIA

teebob21 wrote
Andy, what about RS #33? "Defensive players must be given the opportunity to field the ball anywhere on the playing field or throw the ball without being hindered."

Also, 8-7-P.

You need an act of interference by the runner. A runner legally sliding into a base is not an act of interference.

If you believe the slide was illegal and/or malicious, you should have also ejected the runner for unsportsmanlike conduct.

BlueDevilRef

If it was bang bang at the bag, I'd be inclined to agree with most of you to play on. But I read and OP has verified, runner had time to not make contact. So, again, I've got two outs and with the one on the board, that makes three.

RKBUmp

Where does the OP say anything about he runner having time to avoid contact? F4 received the ball from f6 and was turning to throw when contact was made. Mayeb 3/4 of a second tops?