Observation: Impediments to Moving Up

Welpe

Absolutely and you're also not telling others to take them off. I have no problem with you choosing not to wear one. My comment was directed towards those that are saying to take them off.

dahoopref

crosscountry55 wrote
We've beaten the facial hair horse dead, so let me shift gears. I invite a discussion about wedding rings to begin. Thoughts?

JRutledge wrote
Wedding rings are the only jewelry acceptable to wear that can be seen.

Peace

jpgc99 wrote
I wear my wedding ring. I don't see how rules governing the players has anything to do with me.

Welpe wrote
I've always worn my wedding ring and nobody has ever said a thing about it to me. Shrug.

Welpe wrote
Absolutely and you're also not telling others to take them off. I have no problem with you choosing not to wear one. My comment was directed towards those that are saying to take them off.

For those of you who officiate Men's College Basketball or aspire to, the following is from the 2015-16 Officiating Manual:

Page 32, Article 5. Emblems and Jackets
A. Wrist watches, rings, chains, necklaces, and other jewelry shall not be worn.

Short story: The observer in my area was very keen on an official's uniform appearance. Last season during a post-game evaluation with the crew, the observer asked why I didn't wear my wedding ring during the game (because he knew I was married) and I simply replied, "It's not allowed to wear while we officiate on the court."

My assignor told me one of the reasons I advanced to the conference tournament was that I complied with the uniform regulations of not wearing my wedding ring.

Question:
When advancement to the next level is so competitive with other officials, why do something voluntarily that is against regulations that could hinder your advancement?

JRutledge

I do not think wedding rings are exactly included in that area. For one I know many supervisors that like people that are married and I do not think they want you to take it off because it is technically jewelry. I know D1 officials that were their ring and it does not hurt them. I think that section is about some random ring that someone might wear.

Peace

Welpe

I'm watching the USC / UCLA game and one of the officials didn't get the memo that wedding rings weren't allowed.

And of course I thought of this thread.

j51969

The big take-away here is getting to whatever the next level is for you. At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor. Court appearance and grooming standards may very well be the difference. Find out what is acceptable in your area. Two officials I work with on a regular basis are advancing in women’s college basketball. To include an invite to Patty’s camp this coming year. Both of them are extremely fit, have zero facial hair, and yes take off wedding rings. Even though it wouldn't be a concern in any of our HS games they do it because that’s what they do in college (muscle memory). IHSA has other ideas here in Illinois. If fitness and physical appearance mattered state finals official wouldn't look like that. But I'm not telling anyone who officiates in IL anything they don't already know. Even something as like how tall you are can matter. Both of them are under 6ft, so there is hope for us all.

P.S. One is African-American and one is Caucasian

Rich

j51969 wrote
The big take-away here is getting to whatever the next level is for you. At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor. Court appearance and grooming standards may very well be the difference. Find out what is acceptable in your area. Two officials I work with on a regular basis are advancing in women’s college basketball. To include an invite to Patty’s camp this coming year. Both of them are extremely fit, have zero facial hair, and yes take off wedding rings. Even though it wouldn't be a concern in any of our HS games they do it because that’s what they do in college (muscle memory). IHSA has other ideas here in Illinois. If fitness and physical appearance mattered state finals official wouldn't look like that. But I'm not telling anyone who officiates in IL anything they don't already know. Even something as like how tall you are can matter. Both of them are under 6ft, so there is hope for us all.

P.S. One is African-American and one is Caucasian

Are those state finals officials in position and do they make the correct calls?

Smitty

j51969 wrote
The big take-away here is getting to whatever the next level is for you. At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor. Court appearance and grooming standards may very well be the difference. Find out what is acceptable in your area. Two officials I work with on a regular basis are advancing in women’s college basketball. To include an invite to Patty’s camp this coming year. Both of them are extremely fit, have zero facial hair, and yes take off wedding rings. Even though it wouldn't be a concern in any of our HS games they do it because that’s what they do in college (muscle memory). IHSA has other ideas here in Illinois. If fitness and physical appearance mattered state finals official wouldn't look like that. But I'm not telling anyone who officiates in IL anything they don't already know. Even something as like how tall you are can matter. Both of them are under 6ft, so there is hope for us all.

P.S. One is African-American and one is Caucasian

Unless you are an assignor, I don't think you can identify what the criteria is for moving up the ranks. It's usually the people who aren't moving up as fast as they think they deserve that provide guesses as to what it takes to get there - and usually there are a lot of sour grapes in their guesses. I don't pretend to know why certain people move up and others don't. Around here, female officials move up exponentially faster than men. Do I know why or where that's coming from? No. Do they deserve to go to State 4 years after they started officiating over a guy who has been reffing for 15 years and is just as good? That's not up to me. I used to get upset about these things, but I don't anymore. These things are being decided based on factors I was not provided and no one asked my opinion. If I had stayed in Oregon, I would have likely gone to the State Tourney by now. I will never go to the State Tourney in Texas. That's life. All you can do is work hard, go to camps, be seen by as many influential people as possible, listen, get better, and hope you've impressed the right people.

j51969

Rich wrote
Are those state finals officials in position and do they make the correct calls?

Not everyone looks at a play or situation the same. But all things being all things; the answer IMO is NO more often than it should be.

j51969

Smitty wrote
Unless you are an assignor, I don't think you can identify what the criteria is for moving up the ranks. It's usually the people who aren't moving up as fast as they think they deserve that provide guesses as to what it takes to get there - and usually there are a lot of sour grapes in their guesses. I don't pretend to know why certain people move up and others don't. Around here, female officials move up exponentially faster than men. Do I know why or where that's coming from? No. Do they deserve to go to State 4 years after they started officiating over a guy who has been reffing for 15 years and is just as good? That's not up to me. I used to get upset about these things, but I don't anymore. These things are being decided based on factors I was not provided and no one asked my opinion. If I had stayed in Oregon, I would have likely gone to the State Tourney by now. I will never go to the State Tourney in Texas. That's life. All you can do is work hard, go to camps, be seen by as many influential people as possible, listen, get better, and hope you've impressed the right people.

My grapes aren't sour.

I never said I was an authority on anything. I merley offered the opinion that all things being equal little things matter. Take that for what you will. As for a female with 4 years of experience making it to a state final? If she and the 15 year guy are equally proficient, why not? Basketball is a diverse sport and the officiating should reflect that. If she isn't ready, or not equally qualified then that's a different conversation all together. Their will always be those who feel slighted by the system no matter what your profession. My comments were not geared toward them.

Rich

j51969 wrote
Not everyone looks at a play or situation the same. But all things being all things; the answer IMO is NO more often than it should be.

I think these are the things one needs to ask at the HS level. Is it fitness that keeps people from being in the correct position or is it a lack of training or ability?

I've gone to games this year where the officials look like they've fallen out of an officiating catalog and could go run a marathon. And I've said to people I'm with -- I can't wait to see this guy work -- he *looks* like an official! And within 30 seconds, I go "Oh, boy" as I watch the person ball-watch, back-pedal, and drop anchor once he gets to his "spot" in the front court. And as the T, that's sometimes in the backcourt.

But even I'm guilty (for a couple of minutes) of judging a book by its cover. But that doesn't last long for me.

j51969

Rich wrote
I think these are the things one needs to ask at the HS level. Is it fitness that keeps people from being in the correct position or is it a lack of training or ability?

I've gone to games this year where the officials look like they've fallen out of an officiating catalog and could go run a marathon. And I've said to people I'm with -- I can't wait to see this guy work -- he *looks* like an official! And within 30 seconds, I go "Oh, boy" as I watch the person ball-watch, back-pedal, and drop anchor once he gets to his "spot" in the front court. And as the T, that's sometimes in the backcourt.

But even I'm guilty (for a couple of minutes) of judging a book by its cover. But that doesn't last long for me.

I agree with all of that. Which is why in my original statement I said "At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor". I'm not referring to a guy who looks great on paper, and $hit on the court. I have worked with many who talk a great game, and are immediately exposed once the ball is tossed.

Dad

j51969 wrote
I agree with all of that. Which is why in my original statement I said "At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor". I'm not referring to a guy who looks great on paper, and $hit on the court. I have worked with many who talk a great game, and are immediately exposed once the ball is tossed.

How do you get exposed immediately once the ball is tossed? Minus a bad toss I'm sure most have done once in their career.

JRutledge

Dad wrote
How do you get exposed immediately once the ball is tossed? Minus a bad toss I'm sure most have done once in their career.

I can tell if someone can referee a couple of times up the court. Then from there you will prove my feeling by your actions after that. Officials that a properly engaged in the game it is obvious from the start. Things like looking off ball, moving appropriately when the ball is moving (while not always watching the ball), observing the competitive match-ups in their primary.

Usually there is a process to just get a call right. You might get a call right and I might not believe you knew why you got it right and just guessed right.

Peace

Rich

JRutledge wrote
I can tell if someone can referee a couple of times up the court. Then from there you will prove my feeling by your actions after that. Officials that a properly engaged in the game it is obvious from the start. Things like looking off ball, moving appropriately when the ball is moving (while not always watching the ball), observing the competitive match-ups in their primary.

Usually there is a process to just get a call right. You might get a call right and I might not believe you knew why you got it right and just guessed right.

Peace

Exactly right. Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut.

For me, I look at movement in the L position. If a person drops anchor there, I know he's not engaged. This is true as well for T/C, but for me it's easier to pick up with a lead.

j51969

Dad wrote
How do you get exposed immediately once the ball is tossed? Minus a bad toss I'm sure most have done once in their career.

You have to be joking? I can't believe you took my statement that literal?

Dad

j51969 wrote
You have to be joking? I can't believe you took my statement that literal?

Partially. Maybe you had some insight I didn't.

Raymond

j51969 wrote
I agree with all of that. Which is why in my original statement I said "At some point what separates one official from the next is very minor". I'm not referring to a guy who looks great on paper, and $hit on the court. I have worked with many who talk a great game, and are immediately exposed once the ball is tossed.

If you ever watch officials with an NBA ref, they'll say the same, as will most college supervisors. They can tell within the first few trips up and down the court whether that official may have something special. The impression left after those first few up-and-downs plus a few whistles will determine whether or not they want to pay more attention to an official.

UNIgiantslayers

Just received a reminder from our association of the Officals' Performance Standards, which are used for postseason assignments. Regarding appearance:

10. Appearance, Fitness, Conditioning
• The required NFHS attire/uniform is being worn and all officials are wearing the same style of shirt.

• The uniform fits well and is clean and pressed.

• Shoes are primarily black and polished.

• No visible jewelry is being worn (other than a wedding band/medic alert).

• Weight is appropriate for his/her height.

• Projects strength and an athletic appearance.

• Demonstrates the physical ability to move into proper position on the court.

• Moves at the appropriate pace for any given situation.

• Mentally and physically keeps up with play during the entire contest.

Here's the full document if you're interested.
https://ighsau.arbitersports.com/Groups/107730/Library/files/2015-16%20Basketball%20Performance%20Standards.pdf

JRutledge

Another thing that is not discussed often, but really advancing is also doing all those things and proving you can handle the bigger stages. If you cannot handle a big rivalry game or a game that has high profile coaches and players, people are not going to just give you a State Final. You have to at least in Illinois probably work for a lot of different people and prove yourself in tournaments, big conference games before that becomes the norm in your schedule. It took me a long time go get the so-called better games until I worked with a lot of different people and showed I could handle those situations. Yes getting calls right matter, but you also have to prove yourself to coaches when they yell at you and everything is not solved with a T. You have to be able to communicate or know when to stop communicating with coaches. It is often the things you do that have nothing to do with calls that can help and certainly hurt you. We have many official that can get a block/charge call right but when questioned about it, have no idea how to talk to a coach and have not earned the respect of the coach to say anything.

This is the same reason you see the same guys on TV all the time, because the coaches trust them and do not get calls about those official's calls often. But if they put a new guy in that spot, they might just start complaining about those calls more often. Since the IHSA was referenced, that is the process that people want to see you prove here. You might have a good schedule for one assignor, but do you have a good schedule with all the other assignors? Are you working the big games in other conferences? Are you working the better tournaments in the area? Or are you working the start up tournaments (for the officials) as your Christmas schedule? And most of all, why is an assignor going to use you over a guy that the coaches trust and do not have complaints about? Are you a good partner? Does an official that has been very experienced have to babysit you during a game?

It is so many things I hardly have time to cover them all, but it is not always about a call. Even if you are big, you might have to do some other things to prove that will not be a constant problem.

Peace

Rich

Interestingly enough, I see coaches at their best behavior at state finals. They're on TV and they know that every move they make is going to be seen and scrutinized. It's harder many times to work those coaches in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

When we worked our state game 2 years ago, neither coach said a word to us the entire game...and it was a 1-2 possession game the entire way through.

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