put ball in play across the lane?
 

In HS mechanics in transition, can you bounce the ball across the lane to the inbounder or should you go across and hand them the ball. I know in the front court you go across. Citation please.

I don't have the citation, but while you always bounce the ball when you're on the baseline going the other way, you do it from the side the ball is being inbounded on. So you don't bounce the ball across the lane to the other side.

By the book? No. Before any throwin (with a couple of unrelated exceptions), you box in the players. That, by definition, means you're outside of the spot where the throwin will occur. If you're across the lane, you're not boxing in.

In some areas, however, it is an accepted practice.

I wish the FED would allow for it in 2-man on BC endline throw-ins.

In my area this is the only time I have ever seen it done. If an evaluator happens to be there they will tell you not to do it in the future but they will not be too harsh on you for that...unless you have "other issues". Then they may stress it as something that is easy to fix and shows others that you are "teachable".

Had this thought come up this past week while working 3-man summer league game (as part of our summer evaluation program so we were strict by the book mechanics).

It was after a made FT followed by a TO. After the TO, the player goes to the opposite side of the endline from where I was standing. My partners had already set up as they were following the free throw so I wasn't going to switch sides. I thought about bouncing the ball accross to him (given that he was able to run the endline), but instead called him over to my side, reminded him "anywhere on the endline" for the throw-in. He proceeded to take the ball and run to the other side where the team had a press-break play set up.

It did have me thinking about how this could be a disadvantage in a situation where a team wanted to throw the ball from one particular side. Having to run there first seems like a disadvantage given that had no TO been called, they are entitled to a throw in anywhere on the endline and could have gone there directly.

In these situations the closest official could consider asking the team what side they want to start from and then let the crew know.

My assignor told me in the above cited situation to ask the inbounder where they want the ball and if so, force your partner(s) to switch. Coach's may have drawn up a specific play for that side. Laziness on our part should not restrict that.

Niether IAABO nor FED allow for the ball to be bounced across the key.

They should.

If teams are that inflexible, they probably are not very good coaches in the first place. And I am glad the NF does not advocate moving the ball over to the other side on a bounce. It looks lazy to me and we should move if it is that darn serious.

In 20 years I have only seen one coach even make such a request and that coach did not communicate his intentions very well. His team was never that good and it did not surprise me for reasons like this issue being an issue in the first place.

Peace

I had a game several years ago where the coach asked for the inbound spot to be moved to the other side of the basket. This was legal as the team had the end line to run. The coach didn't make the request until the team was already out and we were almost ready to go.

So I had to move over and get the new L and C to adjust. This took some time for them to recognize and understand what was happening, which gave the defense quite a bit of additional time to set up.

The coach of he inbounding team was unhappy that the defense had this extra time to match up, but it was his own fault for insisting we inbound on the opposite side.

There's little benefit to moving to the other side, but if the team asks I will always do it and force the L and C to adjust. It's really not that big of a deal. I do not bounce the ball across the lane.

I think the ncaa women's mechanic allows the bounce across (or at least it did at one point). Someone that works ncaa-w please correct me if I'm wrong.

NBA and NCAA-W will have the lead bounce it across.

That seems like a really long bounce for a backcourt throwin.

http://i61.tinypic.com/315bnrl.jpg


Please refer to the visual aid :)

In NCAAW if the backcourt throw-in spot opposite the new T is anywhere from the first cone to the end of the arrow (i.e., inside the three-point arc), we step into the area between the lane lines, bounce the ball, then step back...even if there's defensive pressure.

If the throw-in spot is where the second cone is - outside the three-point arc - we balance the floor.

Having done it, it's not so bad. If there's no pressure there's really no need to be over there. If there is, the C stays in the backcourt to help.

When this happened to me, I had a player ask for me right after a basket was made after a final free throw (I was the Lead), "Can I take the ball to the other side?" I said "Sure, you can run over there." I thought he was only asking about his ability to run the end line. And there was a substitution which was the only reason I was administering the throw-in at all.

When I gave the player the ball, as I was coming up by the bench (it was the first half) the coach started yelling, "Read the rulebook....read the rulebook....read the rulebook." By the third one of those, I gave a technical foul. Now it was like a 2 or 3 point game at the time and all that did was take the ball out of their hand and give it to the other team.

I later had an assistant coach come to me and tell me that they wanted the ball to actually be taken to the opposite side of the lane and that other officials apparently allowed this to happen. Then after the game, the coach wrote a letter to the assignor telling me how much I needed to be a better officials by his so-called vast experience as a coach. When I even discussed they situation with my partners after the game or half-time, they were very confused by the request and said they would have wondered what the heck I would be doing if I went to the other side. It might have taken several seconds to recognize the switch.

And to emphasize how silly this coach was, I have not seen him since or never saw that program have any success since (which he clearly is not there anymore).

And the fact you said that the coach was mad because it took time and the defense was allowed to set up, tells me how silly coaches can be. They think they can tell us what to do and we just follow without having responsibilities.

I know nothing about NCAA Women's Mechanics other than what I hear or read occasionally. But the few games I have watched I never see officials do this. I am not sure why, but that appears to be something that is not practiced very often.

Peace

See ^^^

Trust me, we do it every game. As often as possible ;)

I can say when I watch NCAA or lower level college games, I cannot recall seeing it done. Maybe it is those in your areas that want to do it and others that choose not to. Just like any mechanic that involves people all over the country, officials do not all do things with the same level of emphasis.

Peace

Run The Endline Throwin Administration ???
 

Made basket. Dead ball timeout immediately after the ball passes through the basket. There will be a run the endline throwin after the timeout.

Where does the administering official put the ball in play?

I have never seen this addressed in any mechanics manual, either IAABO, or NFHS.

If I'm the administering official, I just put it in play on the side that I was on as the old lead (becoming new trail), either table side, or opposite table side, when the timeout was requested. I was never taught to do it this way, it just seemed natural.

I've had partners who have put the ball in play on the side opposite from where their partner is standing (two person Connecticut), administer on the our table side if it was a sixty second timeout, administer on the opposite table side if it was a thirty second timeout. I'm not as comfortable doing this, but I'm flexible, and will go along with my partner.

How could the NFHS, or IAABO, have gone this far, after decades of fiddling around, trying to improve mechanics guidelines, and not have come up with a mechanic guideline to cover this procedure? I know that they cannot cover every single possibility, but it seems like they should have, at least, covered this.

One thing that we have to do, here in my little corner of Connecticut, according to our mechanics guidelines, is to stand, during the timeout, with the ball, at the spot where we will administer the throwin after the timeout. If we need to leave that spot to confer with partner, we are instructed to leave the ball at that spot.

No one has ever cared. Obviously the only people that care are a couple of coaches that obviously have too much to worry about as the vast majority of coaches never cared either way, because they coach their players to do whatever we do in this situation.

That is the NF mechanic too. But again, mechanics are guidelines not hard fast rules.

Peace

When In Rome ...
 

From your post (and many previous posts, in many previous threads), mechanics sound like they are not hard fast rules where you officiate, and that's fine, where you officiate; but mechanics (and signals) are hard fast rules here in my little corner of Connecticut. Cadets (rookie officials) are taught IAABO mechanics, utilizing both the written manual, and floor training, and all officials are expected to use them, and to do otherwise may negatively impact one's ratings, ranking, and the number, and level of games, that one is assigned. This will impact rookie officials, and veteran officials, alike.

I wish we could fine you every time you use the phrase "my little corner of Connecticut."

Serious question on this... If someone moves to your area with decades of experience at the high school and small college level, is your association really going to restrict the number of games they get because they don't follow the mechanics to the strictest degree possible? Even if they are an absolute rules expert and the best communicator and game manager your group has ever had?

I ask in all seriousness because I've worked for a lot of people that say what you are saying. But the reality is often quite different. Rules knowledge, communication, and game management often go a lot further than strict adherence to mechanics.

We go opposite the table. As our state is mostly 2 man, the official admistering the time out is at half court it just makes sense to keep him on the table side.

All good, but he said the "lead" was bouncing the ball to the thrower....and the "lead" in that diagram is about 70 feet away. ;)

Shut up :D

I'm not paid to read, you know... :D

At least I explained it correctly, even if I didn't answer the question :p

And I got to use my cool graphics so I'm happy regardless.

Interestingly, an observer just had a discussion about this with a few of us at an NCAAW's camp. Now this is 3-person but he said for an endline throw-in following a timeout after a made/awarded FG/FT it's not a bad idea to position ourselves so the administering official is table-side. Why? It gives everyone a good view of the benches/coaches since the C is looking right at them and both the L and T are right next to them.

As for conferring with partners during a timeout, NCAAW mechanics call for the non-administering officials to go to the the administering official if we need to talk. That way both benches (should) know where the throw-in spot is and it keeps us (hopefully) from forgetting the spot.

I am an official that has worked 3 sports at one time and college in each of them and no mechanics are hard fast as you try to make them be other than maybe a starting point like where you stand when putting the ball in play or where you start with runners on base or where you stand going in the 10 yard line. But no mechanic is in stone when play is going on or even covers every possibility. That is why you go to camps and we have classes or discuss mechanics at meetings to cover what people know or have learned is best like what happens on a BC violation situation that comes from the C position. And if you are a student of the game, there is a reason Referee Magazine has published books which cover things that never are published in your IAABO or NF books.

And where I live, we want rookies to go to camp to learn how to officiate and watch other officials to learn the idiosyncrasies of the mechanics. And around here we do not just do 2 person, we do 3 which requires a greater ability to work with your fellow officials. Even when I worked the State Finals, we spent a couple of hours going over mechanics and procedures that were stated and were not stated.

The simple fact Billy that you are mentioning something that is not listed, should be a sign that mechanics are "guidelines" if you read this board. Many people have said that, not just me. But for some reason you focus on me. Maybe you need to get out of the corner sometime.

Peace

Little Corner Of Rome ...
 

It's because I can't speak for the entire state of Connecticut. Even though Connecticut is 100% IAABO, each of the local boards has their own way of doing things.

One Part ...
 

Mechanics is only one small part of any observation, and rating. For example, poor mechanics may mean getting twenty-eight varsity assignments instead of thirty varsity assignments.

Different ...
 

I am a firm believer in the "When In Rome ..." principle. If I ever officiate in another area, I will be prepared to makes changes in my mechanics, and those that move here should expect to make changes in their mechanics. It's not a matter of right, or wrong, it's just "different".

At camp this weekend a D1 guy told me it's ok to do this in the backcourt. I've never seen it done in a D1 game on TV so take that for what it's worth.

It's done all the time in NCAAW / NAIAW / JuCoW games in our area, Jeff. Now, sometimes, at that level, newer officials don't know they can do that, so they go across and force the other officials to adjust. At least until we can talk to them.

He'd be so poor he couldn't afford a belt or a slide rule

You got that right. The first time in a game an official forces his/her partners to switch when the play is going long is usually the last.

I went to a college game to watch a family friend play on her senior day and watched an entire game. I do not recall them doing this once, but then again I probably was not paying that close attention.

I will admit I rarely watch a lot of the games in front of me anymore when I work those levels you mentioned in our area.

Peace

Is it sort of how things in the Chicago area are sometimes different? ;)

Actually the very same things we do in Chicago are taught all across Illinois. Sorry, we are a state organization that teaches officials across the state the same basic things. We are not just a local association that is affiliated with some other organization that puts out information about what officials should or should not do mechanically.

This state and the clinicians who have to be registered and picked to do their jobs are instructed to teach the very same basic things across the state. So things like where you put the ball in play and who puts the ball in play is the same across the state. But just like anything in life with people of all kinds of skill and experience levels, people do many variations of mechanics or have different levels of understanding those mechanics just like we discuss here every day when it comes to coverages, who should make the call, double whistles, back court violation coverage, competitive match-ups and philosophy on when to blow the whistle and not when to blow the whistle.

I also can speak to this personally as I have worked in parts of Central Illinois and even parts of Southern Illinois as well as working the the Chicago land area which we have officials that do the exact same things without much confusion.

Peace

I have definitely been guilty of this! ;)

I do not disagree with this, as I am not obsessed over what is written in a book. That is a very small part of what we do as officials. ;)

Peace

Little Corner Of Rome ...
 

It's kind of like we have six little fiefdoms. We're all IAABO, and there is a state board, but each of the six local boards may do things a little differently than the other five local boards. That's why, here on the Forum, I always try to separate myself from the rest of the State of Connecticut. Since I gave up coaching middle school basketball ten years ago, I really don't know what's going on in the other five local boards, I never watch their officials work games, and I seldom have a chance to talk to officials from other parts of Connecticut.

Huh?
 

For the sake of . . . what? Six or seven steps???
Is that really what all this is about?

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me..._your_head.jpg

It's six or seven steps for the new T. For the C and the new L it can be a 3/4-court change. Here's the diagram again (just because I can...)

http://i61.tinypic.com/315bnrl.jpg

If the new T goes to the other side of the lane that sends the C to the opposite FT line - at least - and forces the official who would have been the new L to move into the frontcourt. This assumes there's pressure on the throw-in. If there's no pressure, it forces the C to go 70 feet to become the new L. Do that a few times to the same person and see if they like you at the end of the night.

This has become one of the funniest threads I've read in a long time.

How many times do you hear me say, "in my little corner of Wisconsin?"

You're missing my point.

Or an extra whistle in his pocket so he can remember who gets the next AP.

I Don't Speak For The Entire Constitution State ...
 

Our local board has a very strict policy about remaining anonymous when posting, as an official, on any type of social media. Rather than making a big deal about being secretive, I always just say, "In my little ..." (it's actually quite little, 325 members, seventy schools, compared to entire state organizations, or metropolitan organizations, often referred by many Forum members), when referring to the way that we do certain things here on my local board, especially when I am pretty certain that many other officials around the country, and around the world, may do these certain things very differently (not right, or wrong, or better, or worse, just differently) than we do. If the moderators don't like it, they are free to delete it (not that they need my permission).

*well-stated!