PC signal sequence
 

So I've been looking at a bunch of nfhs game footage and I've seen many versions of the PC foul signal. Most guys put about 10 short blasts of air in the whistle and come out with their left hand and kinda draw back and punch real energetically with their right fist. During camp they tell us to put in 1 short blast of air with a regular fist in the air. Then put the hand behind your head say "offensive" and point with that same hand in the other direction. So I'm really drawn between these two. The correct mechanic is the last one I described.. I know. But the first mechanic is easily understood by everyone, most officials do this, and it looks so much cooler. (I know we're not out there to look cool, but this motion looks more fluid and crisp)

So tell me what you think, and what you do in your games! Thanks.

One whistle, punch with my left.

Hard to reallly look convincing using the mechanic you describe.

Player Control Foul Signal ...
 

It has always been my contention, for the past thirty-four years, that there are as many player control foul signals as there are members of a board, or association. For some reason this signal, more so than any other, is a chance to "do your own thing".

My suggestion is to do what the best officials in your local association, or board, do; or go with what your mechanics manual (NFHS, IAABO, etc.) states. You probably can't go wrong either way.

For me (Mr. Boring, Vanilla, Conservative, BillyMac), I follow the IAABO mechanics manual:

Sound whistle, fist in the air to stop the clock, hand behind the head for player control foul, verbalize "Player Control", point in the direction that we will be going, and then point to the designated spot.

I only use the punch for a "true" team control foul (i.e., illegal screen). Not all player control fouls are also team control fouls.

But if the best guys in your local association, or board, use the punch for player control fouls, then it's not the worse thing that you can do to follow suit.

"When thou art at Rome, do as they do at Rome." (Miguel de Cervantes)

Is that a correct statement? I might deserve a "Doi!" on this one, but are not all player control fouls also team control fouls? Not all team control fouls are player control fouls. I get that. (Go easy on me...I'm in the last hour of a twelve hour work day right now, so I reserve the right to be wrong on this one)

I've always considered the "punch" the directional point for a TC foul. Does anyone ever throw this pugilistic signal in a direction other than the way the ensuing play is gonna go? I mean, does anyone ever punch toward the play or the other way or toward OOB?

No Team Control ...
 

Airborne shooter has released the ball, ending team control, but then plows into a defender's torso, a defender that has obtained a legal guarding position. No team control but there can still be a player control foul.

Now go back to work. You're getting paid to make widgets, not to surf the internet.

An airborne shooter is not in player control as (s)he is not holding or dribbling a live ball. An airborne shooter may commit a player control foul, however.

Give That Man A Cigar ...
 

Good point. I fixed my post.

A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while
he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter.

It is indeed a paradox. But I think the rules and case books do a pretty good job of explaining that an airborne shooter is considered to be in player control for purposes of applying the rule in a particular situation.

Not an issue in the NCAAM rule set where this preference/caveat was eliminated. But the existence of the RA renders this a moot point in most of the cases where it otherwise would apply.

Also, for what it's worth, I punch on a PC foul. When I move forward to report it, then I'll give the "behind the head" signal with one hand while I punch with the other, just so the benches and table are clear it was a PC foul. But the OP was sort of right...it's hard to sell the call at the spot with the cheesy mechanics provided by the manual.

If you are following the book verbatim. Fist up. Head behind the head. Then point direction.

If you realize that the PC signal is the most useless thing in basketball. Fist up- fist out. There may or may not be an increase in the amount of whistles when calling said offensive foul.

In a HS game I'll give the proper PC signal at the table.

Nope. If I'm calling a TC foul I punch the way we're going. I'll throw in a block or a push signal ( the 2 most common) when I report, and then punch the direction again.

If you punch one way and point the other you'll confuse the hell out of each other.

I go fist up, then punch the opposite direction at the spot. When I'm reporting, I normally punch towards the table while saying "team control foul" and then give a strong directional point with two fingers. I don't think the NFHS necessarily "wants" the punch to be used as a directional, but I don't think they care if you do use it that way. I was taught that the TC foul signal is a "fist forward."

I blow the whistle. I raise my hand with a fist like any other foul. Then I signal with both hands, one behind my head and the other pointing with a fist in the direction we are going. I believe I say, "offense" most of the time if I talk at all.

I report a PC foul by only putting my hand behind my head.

Peace

How About A Nice Hawaiian Punch ...
 

The most common type of team control foul that I call is the illegal screen. I will do the punch in any direction that I happen to be facing, usually toward the play. I don't see anything in the mechanics manual (IAABO for me) that suggests to punch in any particular direction. What does the NFHS mechanics manual say?

I don't believe the NFHS Officials Manual says anything about pointing the direction. Going literally from the signal sheet, the sequence would be fist-hand behind head-point to spot of resulting inbound-go to table.

Fist in the air with a (single) simultaneous blast of the whistle; hand behind the head, then point in the direction the ball will be put in play towards with the same hand to indicate there are no shots, but a throw in. When the whistle is out of your mouth say, "white, 25" and what he did. I usually just say, "charge." At the table, its, "white, 2-5, player control, blue ball, out of bounds" and point to the spot of the throw in.

Do you say all that for every report or just for PC fouls so as to eliminate any possibility of confusion?

Some of you talk way more than I do. I likely say nothing at the spot and "red 25" at the table and nothing more. Signals do my talking.

Good discussion....

I blow once with fist in air, then point with open palm in oppo direction while saying "playing control". Then point to spot of throw in.

When reporting to table, I put my hand behind my head after reporting color and number. Then point to throw in spot.

I'm trying working hard on several things this summer, one which is to use the proper mechanic when I blow - not just at the table.

I say "Offense!" at the spot on a PC, every time. This is not a conscious decision on my part. It just seems to come out. :p

-------

I worked my first state tournament in March. Half a dozen guys in my association always make the "grand tour" of state sites, watching 1st-round games at the 1B/2B site in Spokane (where I was), semifinals of 1A/2A in Yakima, and finals of the big schools in Tacoma. One of these guys charts the fouls in every game he watches (including here) and makes comments on the sheet as the game goes on. This guy is a veteran official but not a playoff-level official, and his comments have a reputation for missing the point sometimes.

In my first game, I had a PC for a push-off as C in transition, maybe 10 feet into the frontcourt. Pretty easy call, the girl got her arm out in front and flattened the retreating defender.

Now, I'd been focusing for a month on perfect NFHS mechanics specifically for this tournament, because the observers who help determine the finalists are known to mark guys down for "that college shit". So when this foul happened: fist, hand behind head, yay! And then for some reason I punched instead of pointing. So...remembered to add the one, forgot to subtract the other. :rolleyes: (I like how it looked on film though!)

Well, the observer told me later "Great PC signal!" but the guy from my association wrote "NOT NFHS CHARGE MECHANIC" in giant letters on his little sheet. Left me chuckling.

(End of the story: got my final; head observer said my signals needed more personality but acknowledged that my "robotic" (his word) precision may have helped me get the game. Heh)

Why do you say twenty-five at the spot and then two-five at the table?

Many camps,clinicians, and manuals suggest using the full number ( twenty-five in this case) whenever you give a number.

The NFHS mechanic is whistle, fist, hand behind the head, and then point the other way. All with same hand. No punch at all

Can you tell me where the highlighted part is please?

Every camp I've been to in the last five years. Every instructor, evaluator, and every staff member has said this.

My goodness, I'm so thankful I can make the call without worrying about signal sequence and all that nonsense.

I assign and I couldn't possibly care about this stuff. You can get every signal right and if you get the call wrong you will always be rated below the guy that punches and gets it right. At least with me.

Interestingly, in the IAABO manual the description under the TC signal reads:

"Team Control (not a punch)"

So...I've just shot my arm/fist directly above my head and now I'm supposed to move that same arm/fist in front of me. I guess I'm supposed to drop it straight down like it's Thor's hammer or something instead of punching?

Either/or = bad.
Both/and = nice.

I've often wondered about that. Then I remember it is more IAABO nonsense and I stop wondering.

I think what they want you to do is to just put the fist out, like for a delayed dead ball on a FT - extend the arm.

I also think that's some weak-looking stupid shit. :D

Riddle Me This, Batman ...
 

I agree with you that getting the calls right is the most important aspect of officiating basketball, not only to an assigner, but to everybody; athletic directors, coaches, players, parents, fans, partners, etc., but there are other things to consider, they're minor, but they still should be considered.

How about two officials, both equally get more correct calls than any other official that you assign, both are equal in all other aspects of officiating (game management, appearance, physical condition, availability, reliability, etc.), one executes all signals correctly (IAABO, NFHS, etc.), the other is a loose cannon signaler. Who gets the nod?

From my experience, especially at the high school level, if you're an excellent play caller, game manager, have a good athletic appearance, keep availability up to date, and are reliable, you will get games. PERIOD. If you're getting these things right you probably have good mechanics, too. They might not necessarily meet the strict definition of nfhs or iaabo but as long as they don't look silly, you'll be fine

I worked in a group that "required" the bird dog for all fouls. My focus was college so I didn't do this and most of my mechanics were more ncaa in nature. Nobody said a word to me because I was getting the other things right. You're never going to have a situation (especially at the high school level) where everything else is equal.

If you're goal is to work nfhs playoffs, use nfhs mechanics. But know your goals, and the expectations of the people that will help you achieve your goals. The rest will fill in if you're getting everything else right.

I wouldn't necessarily equate "loose cannon signaler" with one who doesn't use strictly NFHS mechanics. The real question is, how crisp are those signals and how well do they communicate?

If, as in your scenario, one guy uses Thor's Hammer and the other uses a good punch, I think Rich gives the nod to the puncher, provided said punch communicates and sells the call well.

There is, of course, a common sense limit. Joey Crawford communicates quite well, too, but I'm not sure that's the song and dance a HS assignor wants on his court. A little space for personal style = good. A wholesale personal repertoire = bad.

I agree with this. And it's hard to explain where the line gets drawn. Someone once explained it to me like this: If you look good giving a non-textbook mechanic, you'll probably be okay. But how do you know if you look good? The answer: nobody tells you to change.

I suggest starting out textbook. Once you've mastered the basics and understand the reason behind the mechanics, you can develop a slight personal flair when appropriate.

True or False:
Most assigners could care less about officials' signaling. All they care about is whether or not they will get a complaining AD's phone call after the game. Period.

Interestingly, Ohio has absolutely forbidden the punch, even for team control fouls. Team control fouls are reported with the player control signal. The given reason is coaches and fans won't understand what the punch means.

It's not that often a state association calls their coaches dumb.

I'll only speak for myself.

When a coach or AD (or official, for that matter) complains, I ask for video. I'll judge for myself.

[QUOTE=Freddy;961916]True or False:
Most assigners could care less about officials' signaling. /QUOTE]

False. ;)

Yeah, I noticed that too, but chose to leave it alone. :D

FWIW, Minnesota wants its officials to use the exact same mechanic for both player control and team control fouls. Fist up, punch the other way with the same fist. Never behind the head anymore.

I honestly can't imagine that a coach wouldn't understand that a punch in the opposite direction means a foul on the offense. I also would imagine that the average fan would be able to interpret this, but I honestly could care less if fans understand what our signals mean.
Yep. Would never be willing to work for an assigner who scolds his/her officials because of a bitchy coach or AD without seeing any video. If the AD/coach really thinks a mistake was made, get the video.

*I follow the procedure described by this post (above)--no need for me to conjure up a modified mechanic. Only exception is that I will say
"white, twenty-five". Instead of saying "white, 2 - 5". However, the score table will always verbally verify that I am saying 'player number 25 instead of "player number 2 and/or player number 5". So, this is a minute detail dictated more by training than tenet.

Sounds more like it's dictated by anal retentiveness than anything else. Shrug.

Communication ???
 

But isn't that one of the purposes of signals, to communicate the "call" to partners, table personnel, coaches, players, and fans?

It is, according to the NFHS:

"Signaling is an essential aspect of officiating and, through its use, decisions and information are relayed to players, coaches, and spectators."

Quiz
 

Who is most influential in holding officials accountable to using approved signals?
A) NFHS
B) The state
C) Camp clinicians
D) Local association trainer(s)
E) Assigner(s)
F) Individual officials who care
G) Does it really frickin' matter?

Number And Level Of Assigned Games ...
 

In my little corner of Connecticut: Peer evaluators, whose ratings determine an official's ranking in the organization, a ranking that influences the number, and level, of games that that official is assigned.

If fans don't understand what the signals mean, then the way I communicate them won't make any difference. My point was that Ohio's stance makes no sense: if fans comprehend what "hand behind the head" means, then it would be reasonable to assume that they would understand what a punch in the opposite direction means. If they don't understand one, they're not going to understand the other. I just don't get telling officials they "can't use a certain signal" because "the fans won't understand it." If the fans really care about understanding the signals, they can study the chart.

Don't say 2-5. Say twenty five.

Depends on the locale.

For us, associations make no assignments. Conference varsity games are assigned by commissioners, of which I am one. If I wished to use that as a criteria for our 20 boys and 19 girls programs I could. I've already made my feelings known.

If you're talking postseason, that's all in the hands of the state.

I'm really not fond of anyone who puts too much effort or worth in robotically following a signal chart. I'm much more interested in effort, positioning, and correct calls.

They Must Play A Lot Of Basketball In Rome ...
 

"Two. Five.", here in my little corner of Connecticut.

And who is going to stop me or anyone else that does?

This is about as silly a thing to get upset by if you ask me.

Peace

No one on this list really. Here it falls into the sport administrator (we have one for each gender) and they often have Head Clinician that conveys the message. I am a state clinician and it is who I have to listen to when teaching my camps. After that it comes back to the assignor who hires the officials for regular season game (many do not care), but the state administrator hires all the officials for the State Tournament. So at the end of the day, if they do not like your mechanics you do not work in the post season. And assignors want people that work the post season for their own credibility.

Peace

Chutes And Ladders ...
 

JRutledge: You've already made it to the top of the scholastic basketball officiating ladder, so you can pretty much do, within reason, whatever you want. Plus you're a clinician so I'm sure that you follow your own advice. So, to answer the first part of your question, nobody is going to stop you.

Now let's deal with some of the "anyone else".

For those starting at the bottom of the ladder, I suggest that they follow the advice of their assigner, and their interpreter (clinician).

If they say to say, "Twenty-five.", than by all means say, "Twenty-five."

If they say to say, "Two. Five.", than by all means say, "Two. Five."

If they say that either is acceptable, then do whatever feels right for you, but I would try to emulate the successful officials in your association.

If they're giving you mixed messages, then follow the advice of the one that will have the greatest impact on you moving up the ladder, probably your assigner.

Nfhs manual says say the whole number- I've always said(and will always say) the whole number when reporting. But.. It also says say the color and number directly after you call the foul- which I've never seen anyone do and I've never done (and will never do). The main thing I'm trying to work on during the offseason is my appearance- this includes losing weight, moving faster, better positioning as T (I have a bad habit of being a statue and backing out too early), and signaling.

Anyone else still signal blocking fouls with fists on hips instead of palms facing down??? I HATE the way the open palms look when you're trying to sell a blocking foul. The fists looks so much more crisp and believable. Please tell me I'm not the only one.

Blocking Signal ...
 

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, rookies are taught to use the proper signal (open palms), but after that, both signals seem to be "tolerated". For me personally, I usually go with fists at the site of the foul (probably because of observing old timers do it back when I was on my way up the ladder) and then go with open palms when reporting. I'd love to use the proper signal all the time, but it's tough to teach an old dog old tricks.

Stopping the clock with a raised fist and then signaling the direction of the ball while placing a hand behind your head is the proper NFHS mechanic and if you are new and/or being evaluated a a HS official, that's what you should do.
That being said, most veteran officials adopt a variation of the NBA style fist punch. If I do that, I give the proper PC foul signal when I report to the table.

Using a multiple whistle for a player control foul is a way to make it clear, particularly to your partners, that you are calling a PC foul. Block = single whistle and charge = multiple whistle. This is not a rule, this is simply a matter of personal preference and are one of the little nuances that help show your command of the game.

The proper mechanic for a team control foul is to give the normal raised fist foul signal and then to drop the fist so that it is facing forward. The proper mechanic is not a punch. Again, most officials have either adopted the punch or give the raised fist foul signal and point in the direction of the ball. Again, a multiple whistle helps signal what you are calling, but is by no means a requisite.