Providence - Dayton...Ed Cooley technical
 

Let the comments begin...

Disclaimer: Met him a few times, extremely competitive and I think he is a great guy.

I'm happy I got to start a tourney thread before BNR beat me to it....

I was at the Butler-Providence game this year and Cooley should have been whacked. I'm happy to see him finally get one. Dude rails the officials like no other.

Horrible call, one of the worst so far. Cooley was mad at his team, and Ogelsby (sp?) had no business even paying attention to the huddle.

I'm of the opinion that NCAA officiating gets worse and worse every tournament. So far this tournament has been an absolute joke when it comes to officiating.

Uh, no. Not even close. I've seen many Providence games and Cooley is on his team more than anything. I've seen many, many more coaches that are far worse

He is a huge supporter of referees. He has said at his camp that he thinks referees are underpaid...

For the textbook definition of: "Lack of Officiating Common Sense" look no further than Terry Oglesby's technical foul he assessed the Providence coach.

Sure hope any official who does that ISN'T working during the 2nd week of the tournament....

I was really hoping that the crew would get together and "discuss" this. From TV there doesn't seem like anything precipitated this.....

Sportsmanship is supposed to die because these games are important.

Good for the official. He threw a chair on the floor. He deserved it.

Have at it, fanboys.

If Oglesby works another game in this tournament it is a shame. The fact he's working at all is a shame. He is awful.

Uh, why? The referees are in charge of everything on the court. Why would the referee conveniently ignore the chair thrown on the floor?

Admittedly my sample size is pretty small (the Butler game, and this one) but both times I've seen him pumping the refs for calls and being disrespect. Looks like a trend to me.

So what? There are tons of two-faced coaches who are awesome off the court but insufferable on...

No, just no. If Oglesby wouldn't have been butting into the huddle its a non issue.

I know that in my association, if I whacked a coach for knocking a chair over because he was mad at HIS PLAYERS I would not be working the rest of the season. Absolutely brutal lack of common sense there

Absolutely brutal lack of common sense by Cooley for throwing a chair towards where the official stands during a full timeout? Totally agree.

Intent doesn't matter.

Deadspin with the level headed reporting they are known for: http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/id...ool-1692780853

Yep, that about sums it up

John Adams decides who works. Can't imagine he'd be bothered by this technical foul.

Those officials who ignore this.....thank goodness I work with people who wouldn't.

Thank god I don't work for you then. I like my assignors because they have common sense. It's not our job as officials to enforce how a coach acts toward his players. I've seen a lot worse than that go unpunished. Thankfully most of the people in my association agree that it was an overbearing official sticking his nose where it didn't belong, and that's all that matters to me.

Some officials need to realize that the majority of people aren't there to see them work. From what I've seen from Oglesby this season, he's one of them.

I'm just glad that bs technical didn't influence the game. Providence did that on their own.

The problem is, in the regular season that is not called. About six weeks ago, I was watching a game in where Chris Collins of Northwestern and Pat Driscoll were going jaw to jaw over a non-goaltending call. No technical foul was called.

This has been brought up before, when you have one set of supervisors for the regular season, and a separate set for the NCAA tournament where there is more pressure to call this creates problems.

In the regular season, you see a lot of bad stuff by coaches, and players that never gets called.

So if a coach is loudly swearing, dropping F bombs and racial slurs, during a timeout huddle to his team, do you have no reaction? I realize I'm posing an extreme example, but my point is you had better not claim that this "isn't our job"

Just watched the video. Technical is a joke.

I find that most people who make such claims have very poor understanding of the rules and how the game really should be officiated and are instead basing much of their opinion on ignorance and/or myths. Your subsequent posts along with, another recent visitor, just go to confirm that.

You'd be wrong again, particularly if it were in a HS game. If you see far worse going unpunished in your area, then the officials in your area must be afraid to take care of business.

Throwing chairs is just a no-no. I don't care what the reason was or who it was directed at. Such behavior simply does not belong anywhere on the court.

As someone who has no horse in this race, so to speak, the technical foul absolutely didn't need to be called. If the action had been directed at an official(or anyone other than his own team), I'd have no issue with it.

Some things are just not allowed no matter who the target is. Throwing chairs is one of them.

If he'd actually thrown it, I'd likely agree. He knocked it over. Not an action that the other team should be getting free throws for.

Other than calling the official an idiot, the Deadspin article is correct.

Independent of the play in question...are you sure you're qualified to determine whether or not a T should be handed out? You've said it yourself, you've not an official.

As to the play in question...overt actions such, such as throwing/hitting the chair opens one up to be assessed a technical foul. And for all we know, there may be words that accompanied this T...in guise of "just talking to his guys."

Don't let facts get in the way of your argument. Usually when I knock something over, it doesn't travel 10-15 feet or more (can't see where it stopped but it was at least that) before it stops.

I'm not a basketball official. I did officiate baseball until some health issues came up.

If there were a way to penalize the coach without rewarding the other team, I'd be all for it. I just don't think that this rises to the level of something the other team should benefit from.

How could you penalize a member of a team without the other team benefiting? Make him stay after school and write "I will not throw chairs" 500 times? If it doesn't hurt the team (which is the same as helping the opponents) there would be no incentive to not do it.

Charged timeout, add a foul to the team's count, a documented warning, etc. I realize that adding a foul to the team's count is still benefiting the other team, but it's not essentially giving them free points.

I think I'm coming at it from the baseball mentality of an equipment toss that doesn't endanger others and isn't directed at/in response to an official is a warning.

All of those suggestions benefit the other team, just in different ways. Basketball rules don't need to be made so complicated like baseball rules. We have enough penalty variations already. Don't need more. Unsportsmanship conduct is penalized somewhat harshly in most sports and that is what this was. A T is the only option there is, really.

Yeah. I just feel like that's an excessive penalty for what happened. Is there any rule support for any kind of warning here? Really anything short of what should typically amount to a big gift to the other team.

The unprofessional posts notwithstanding, I can see the merits of both sides of this debate. Personally, I'm not sure this is a T. I think the chair was tipped over, not thrown. No eye contact with the officials....hmmm. But the coach also has to realize that you can't take actions that subject you to the judgment of the officials, because sometimes said judgment may not go in your favor. I don't mind the call, I just don't think I would have called it.

Going a little deeper, tmagan made a great point that was also reflected by an announcing crew during one of the games yesterday (can't remember which one):

It's a psychological reality that you call the game differently, even if subconsciously, when you know that instead of your season-long body of work being judged, for the most part, your advancement in the tournament is whittled down to game-by-game performance. Are there some exceptions? Yes. John Adams knows who his tried and true veterans from Regional Finals or higher games are, and they can maybe be just a little more relaxed (just don't make a truly awful call and you're probably safe). For the rest of 'em, every call in a single game is harshly scrutinized.

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with advancement evaluations within the tournament itself. I'm just saying that if such a system is in place, some of these odd moments that we see every year are going to come with the territory. Intense pressure sometimes makes officials (just like players) behave abnormally.

Some of the "fanboy" posts from non-officials on this forum are getting out of hand. Anyone that thinks what goes on in the huddle is "not our business" should do all officials a favor and get out of officiating. I would bet money that John Adams has made clear that this kind of conduct related to bench decorum is to be penalized.

I disagree. Unsportsmanlike conduct is unsportsmanlike conduct no matter who it is directed towards. Just like the fighting rule, if two teammates fight each other, they are both charged with flagrant fouls. It doesn't matter that they are teammates.

One of my biggest regrets as an official is not giving a T to a travel basketball coach who was berating and belittling his own 13-14 years old players such that everyone in the gym could hear it. His kids were dejected by it, and it sucked the joy of playing basketball from them. A T to the coach would have let the players know that their coach's behavior was wrong and unacceptable...and I think their parents would have cheered and applauded.

The f'ing huddle was in the free throw lane, how is he supposed ignore what's happening when the chair ends up practically at his feet?

You can't be serious. :rolleyes:

Not a huge fan of this T.

I get that if the officials felt like it was directed at them or they legitmately felt like there was an unsporting act I can support that. I just wouldn't call one here.

I just don't feel like thats a chair throw. I also don't think that we are dealing with kids here. Everyone in the huddle is an adult that is choosing to be there. If you don't want/like or feel maligned but demonstrative displays of emotion but the man in charge you've had ample time to leave prior to tonight. Not saying that validates all behaviour but I'm not concerned with chair tipping hurting the feelings of the other adults involved.

Complicating factors for me:

- The Timeout is in the middle of the floor to start with. So if a water bottle gets kicked or a clip board slammed its going to be much nearer the officials regardless. If the timeouts are going to be allowed to be in the middle of the floor the fact that you are closer to the timeout shouldn't play into how close what is happening in the timeout is good to you.

- You are basically T'ing up alignment. If the Timeout has players or coaches standing behind him. As an official you don't know what is going on. In the games I do i would have never seen the chair as the physical spaces and player alignment would have had the chair stopped at at the feet of a wall of coaches/players before sliding. The fact that a chair can slide out or the timeout is because he's got everyone lined up to see better. If he was emotional but less conscious of getting eye contact with everyone we don't know what has gone on.


That is a lot of "what if" though. Judging the play on its merits, I'm not sure at that level in that moment I'm calling that a T.

"NCAA coordinator of officials John Adams released a statement supporting the call and citing Rule 10, Section 3, Article 2 on bench personnel committing unsportsmanlike acts."

Coach was jawing at the official BEFORE he commenced his huddle and complaining about a call just before the timeout...watch the first 3 seconds of the video.....the chair tipping was just the icing on the cake that set the official off, rightly so. Maybe he meant to send it towards the official not expecting any further response. He was railing the crew the previous 4-5 minutes and they extended him a lot of latitude to that point.

For any of you that come on here to blast a fellow official I say shame on you! I wonder how you would like it if we all watched a snippet video of your work and determined that you were the worst official we ever seen. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

The fact that you're posting as a whiny, pissy fanboy on an officiating forum is also a shame.

There are really only two basic skills that officials must possess to be effective: rules knowledge and judgement. The lack of judgement displayed was astonishing in this situation. Any official that does that cannot be allowed to work a game of any importance at any level.

Actually, any official that does not have the stones to take care of business when needed "cannot be allowed to work a game of any importance at any level." I think you've proven your idiocy as a whiny fanboy on more than one occasion on this forum, and this is just another shining example. Maybe you are an official, I don't know, but your ridiculous posting history wouldn't suggest that. Your reading comprehension skills also need some work.

I'm sure you know more than John Adams.

I'm sorry for your situation, but I like working an area where we're allowed to address this crap the right way. Oddly, we never see shit like this. Weird, I know.

Please share with us the association you work for. Seriously, I want to know what associations not to work for in the event I ever relocate.

Coaches don't try this crap in my area. Funny how that works.

The "association" probably works only adult wreck league. No legitimate high school or college association would put up this this.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but whether the officials work one or two games in the first weekend was known beforehand. So whether Ogelsby works or doesn't work on Sunday means nothing with respect to his technical foul last night.

That is correct. The opening weekend is prescheduled. The evals, plus some other factors such as prior tourney experience, result in assignments or not for the 2nd weekend (Sweet 16 & Elite 8).

Where do you work in KS? I know that the commissioners that I work for would have no problem defending this call. Maybe it wouldn't be their favorite, but I would loose exactly zero games over it. Change the situation a bit. Would you let a coach dump a chair on the bench because he was mad at his players, or slam the clipboard down? Maybe not the best call of the tournament, but it is defensible by rule, and it's far from the worst call.

That's a technical foul. Especially after he has been ripping the officials already. Unsporting act.

This is an example why I avoid the phrase "common sense" in officiating. Everyone thinks they know exactly what it is, when common sense in these contexts really means, "How come everyone doesn't think like I do?"

That said, in NFHS, I have a T. NCAA enforcement has a different threshold of acceptable behavior, though. College coaches are dealing with legal adults, and therefore get away with a greater deal of swearing and other antics that shouldn't be allowed in scholastic basketball. I'm not sure where that line is among NCAA officials and supervisors; I'm leaving it those here who have been there to inform us.

I'm going to simply say that while some coaches may get the benefit of the doubt on this at the college level, the fact that he had spent the previous minutes bitching about a call pretty much eliminates that benefit.

And to whoever said (I don't feel like finding who it was) he "knocked it down", that's not even close to what happened. He threw it on purpose. The target of his ire may be in dispute, but he didn't "knock it down."

Thread closed. Ban hammer found, dusted off, and used.