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-   -   What is a foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99480-what-foul.html)

reffish Thu Mar 12, 2015 09:44am

What is a foul? What would be your answer!
 
After working an elementary school game (3/4), not horribly physical, just the normal typical do I call that travel or that travel. How about that foul, or that one? There may have been a sequence where a foul could have been called, but nothing to cause a riot with players or even coaches. After the game, a kid, about 8-9 years old, come up to us and asks "I am not a basketball player and would like to know what is a foul?" I opened my mouth to answer her and realized that a parent sent her. I replied, no, we are not going to do this, go back to your parent. Thank you for asking. Never had a kid sent to confront a ref.

Valley Man Thu Mar 12, 2015 09:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by reffish (Post 957584)
After working an elementary school game (3/4), not horribly physical, just the normal typical do I call that travel or that travel. How about that foul, or that one? There may have been a sequence where a foul could have been called, but nothing to cause a riot with players or even coaches. After the game, a kid, about 8-9 years old, come up to us and asks "I am not a basketball player and would like to know what is a foul?" I opened my mouth to answer her and realized that a parent sent her. I replied, no, we are not going to do this, go back to your parent. Thank you for asking. Never had a kid sent to confront a ref.

Well son … it is a bird (such as a chicken) that is raised for food.

Pantherdreams Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:14am

Quick - Illegal contact that we decide has a direct impact on the play or that is excessive.

Not So Quick - Basketball is a contact sport so contact is going to occur that is just incidental to the game. Our job is to judge the impact or effect the contact has and who is responsible.

Sermon on the Mount - Combine Quick and Not So Quick. REvisit everal plays from the game and explain the process and reasoning.

The Padgett - Quick + "Thanks for your concern. Can I have your mom's number?"

reffish Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:40am

All great responses!

LRZ Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:18am

I would delete "we decide" in the quick response.

jpgc99 Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by reffish (Post 957584)
After working an elementary school game (3/4), not horribly physical, just the normal typical do I call that travel or that travel. How about that foul, or that one? There may have been a sequence where a foul could have been called, but nothing to cause a riot with players or even coaches. After the game, a kid, about 8-9 years old, come up to us and asks "I am not a basketball player and would like to know what is a foul?" I opened my mouth to answer her and realized that a parent sent her. I replied, no, we are not going to do this, go back to your parent. Thank you for asking. Never had a kid sent to confront a ref.

I'd continue jogging to my locker room with no response or acknowledgement of the question.

HokiePaul Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:50pm

"There's a lot of rules that cover fouls. If you want to learn more, after the game I can sell you my rule book for $20"

reffish Thu Mar 12, 2015 01:34pm

We had to stay for the next game. I watched the kid go back to her dad and explain my answer. The dad never looked over.

Adam Thu Mar 12, 2015 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 957595)
I'd continue jogging to my locker room with no response or acknowledgement of the question.

The next time I do a 3/4 grade game with a dressing room for the officials will be the first.

And I would have done it exactly as the OP. I'm not getting into officiating discussions with a 10 year old. Or a dad. Let alone a dad trying to use his 10 year old.

AremRed Thu Mar 12, 2015 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by reffish (Post 957601)
We had to stay for the next game. I watched the kid go back to her dad and explain my answer. The dad never looked over.

I love it when this happens! I just watch where the kid runs and stare at their parents. Hopefully they turn around.

jpgc99 Thu Mar 12, 2015 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 957606)
The next time I do a 3/4 grade game with a dressing room for the officials will be the first.

And I would have done it exactly as the OP. I'm not getting into officiating discussions with a 10 year old. Or a dad. Let alone a dad trying to use his 10 year old.

Yes, I realize my dry humor didn't come through well. Instances like this are why I dislike youth sports and haven't worked a youth basketball game in several years. A no-win situation for the official, to be sure, but that is unfortunately the reality of youth sports.

If I was in that situation I hope I woud have handled it as the OP did. I don't think there is a better way.

AremRed Thu Mar 12, 2015 03:13pm

There's a ref I know who has the driest sense of humour. Either that or he's autistic or something. He says coaches ask him all the time how something wasn't a foul and he tells them "it wasn't a foul because I didn't blow my whistle and put my fist in the air".

jpgc99 Thu Mar 12, 2015 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 957619)
There's a ref I know who has the driest sense of humour. Either that or he's autistic or something. He says coaches ask him all the time how something wasn't a foul and he tells them "it wasn't a foul because I didn't blow my whistle and put my fist in the air".

I'm not that bad; I know that dry humor doesn't work well during the game so I'm not one to use the "humor as a de-escalation" tactic. That simply isn't part of my toolkit while on the court. :) with that said, the thought above has run through my mind a few times.


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