Ejection Championship Game
 

I was in the stands last night watching A good buddy & his crew work Playoff Championship game and yes I got all my calls right from the stands:)

Hotly Contested game..lots of emotion in the building...Q3..A's best player feels he was fouled at said to the official.."Call The F%^&*ing Foul"..Whack #1...as player is walking away from official..sez "You Bitch" (Male Official)..Whack #2 and dumped!

With the ejection A's player must sit next game which is first round state playoffs.

Ejection official did not provide explanation to A's Coach..Just stood opposite table side.

Questions:

1) In a regular season game..This post does not exist:)..but since its a championship playoff game, do we change our tolerance level?

2) How would you handle getting the player subbed out after first whack, since kid is a knuckle head and is about to be dumped?

3) Communication with the coach? How would you approach under these circumstances?

Sometimes explanations aren't needed.

1. For this behavior, absolutely not.

2. The second T is his own doing, and likely can't be prevented. Preventative officiating should always be used, but sometimes players hang themselves. In this case, the first T is preventative portion of the officiating. He knows the rule, yet continued on and therefore has to suffer the consequences.

3. It seems that both T's were called by the same official. He took care of bidness; good for him! If the HC isn't in control of himself, after the 2nd T, you could have, by local adaptation?, have the officials meet, and have a/the non-calling official handle the coach. Otherwise, I would gladly deal with the coach if I was the calling official.

Both technical fouls were justified. Absolutely cannot tolerate that behavior in any setting - championship game or not.

As far as talking to the coach, it varies on the situation and the coach. Most don't want an explanation; they just want to use the opportunity to complain. A very brief explanation - "he used profanity resulting in the first technical foul and made a personal derogatory comment directed at me with additional profanity."

That's all that's needed and after I say it I'm not going to stick around to engage in a conversation.

1) No.

2) Not my job to get him "subbed out." He apparently didn't have enough self-discipline to keep himself in the game long enough for his coach to get him out.

3) I'd give the coach a quick explanation as a courtesy, if he wanted one, then I'm on my way.

The coach will let you know if he needs an explanation -- either by a look, or by standing at the corner of the coaching box, or by asking, etc.

It's likely that the coach didn't need an explanation here.

1. Even if your tolerance level goes up, both of these are as close to automatic as it gets.

2. That's a coaching decision, but the kid made his second mistake before the coach could even sit him down.

3. If I think the coach could hear the kid's second comment, I don't need to explain anything. If I think there's a chance he didn't hear the 2nd comment, I'll give him about a two second recap if he asks before taking my position on the other side of the court.

Coach: "What did he do to get that second technical?"
You: "He called me your name." :rolleyes:

1) You can manage and expect more emotion, but this is still unacceptable. Both T's deserved.

2) All you can do is sub in and out properly. If he does/says something stupid I'm not ignoring it just because he's being subbed out.

3) I think it is reasonable to give the coach an explanation if he/she is being reasonable. If you want them to manage the kid and situation effectively they need facts too.

Why should my tolerance change?

Do my responsibilities change?
Is the pay changed by a "nice" margin?
Do the rules change?

These are automatic. In fact if the second comment was said first the kid's done in my game.

if you whack the best player on a team and throw him out in ANY game - let alone a playoff game, you better provide the coach w/ an explanation. to do otherwise would simply be a complete lack of officiating common sense and game management.

Is our job to differentiate between the best player and everyone else?

To not whack or throw out ANY player for this kind of behavior, or to not whack or throw out a player on the basis that he is the best player on the team, would also simply be a complete lack of officiating common sense and game management. It would also fly right in the face of what our job mandates we do. Our responsibilities don't change because of the game's platform, believe it or not.

And please show me where our job description mandates that we give a coach an explanation after throwing out the best player. If (s)he wants an explanation, (s)he'll let me know with his/her words or body language.

Your insistence on avoiding technical fouls and ejections at all costs is not going to get you far.

The more I thought about this thread, I started thinking this more and more. If the teams have championships coming up, they need to not do and say things that could get them suspended.

I've also thought about this over the years. Most (all?) states have some mandatory suspension for unsportsmanlike conduct. But, how many officials are hesitant to call conduct unsporting because it "didn't rise to the level that warrants a suspension." Sometimes I wonder if we would call things more often if there wasn't an automatic penalty beyond the contest that we are assigned to.

Somebody the other day pointed to NBA officials not being afraid to call technicals or even ejections for unsporting behavior. They know that if the conduct deserves additional penalties, the league will fine or suspend the players involved. Their job is to take care of the game in front of them, not worry about other ramifications.

Like I said before, if I think the coach might not have heard the kid's comments, I'll give him a quick recap.

The OP, however, is told from the perspective of someone in the stands. There's a good chance that in that case, I'm going to be confident that the coach heard every word. * I'm not going to give him a recap in that case, because if he heard the comments and still needs an explanation, he doesn't really want an explanation. That conversation is likely to end with the coach saying something stupid, like "Well, you should have called a foul."

If there's any doubt, I'd start by asking, "Coach, did you hear what he said?"

If he says anything but, "no," then see above *.

And I'm giving the coach the same consideration whether it's his best player or his last kid on the bench.

They also know if they fail to take care of business, they'll lose their jobs.

If anyone reads the first post and even considers letting the kid remain in the game, you really need to calibrate your meter or get out of HS officiating.

+100

This is a classic example of how important communication skills are in being a good official…..NOWHERE in my post did I say, hint, or infer that, based on the OP, I would NOT give a T or eject the player in question. I ONLY said, that IF you throw the best player on the team out of the game (or any player really), you definitely owe the head coach an explanation.

You CANNOT assume the head coach knows why you ejected the kid…just like you CANNOT assume meaning to a statement/post that I did not say/post.

The best officials posses two key components (before you assume that these are the ONLY "ingredients" - there are others…): judgement & communication (be it mechanics, dealing w/ players/coaches, or any # of other communicative elements).

Any call (or non-call) made in a game is based on the view or angle that an official has on the play. Because your view is different than the view that virtually everyone else in the gym/arena has, it causes people to sometimes have a different opinion as to what happened. In certain situations (like the one described in the OP), you will need to explain/discuss with people what you saw and why you ruled the way you did.

An official can certainly make calls and NOT explain/discuss/talk with anyone during a game, but that official should expect that he/she will not receive the games/advancement that he/she desires in the future. If someone thinks that officiating is ONLY about "getting the calls right", then they are not living in the real world of officiating.

We "owe" the head coach an explanation so long as he is respectful and actually asks for one.

Every time there is a discussion about behavior/ejections/technical fouls on this forum, you show up and preach about how important it is to communicate and be the bigger person. We get it, most of us have been doing this for a very long time and are well aware of how important it is to communicate. We don't need a tutorial every time the topic comes up.

If the coach doesn't want an explanation, why would you give it to him? If he knows what the kid said to get himself tossed, do you honestly think he needs you repeating it to him? If the coach needs an explanation, he'll ask for it. As BNR said, sometimes explanations aren't needed.

What "people" other than the head coach would need an explanation? The fans? The assistants?

Agreed -- and sometimes the coach "asks" non-verbally -- it doesn't need th be a "Hey, Ref -- what did he say?"

Man your games must be long. Do you explain everything you do on the court? I know I don't.

I certainly dont have to explain what I saw and why I ruled. It's something that may need to be done because its a decent thing to do.

Welcome to officiating, where half the gym won't be happy with you at any time. It's life. Live with it. Sometimes, the more crowd is unhappy with me the better job I'm doing.

Possible ways this goes with the coach.

1. He's standing at the edge of the coaching box, looking confused. I walk close enough so my normal speaking voice reaches the coach, "Did you hear what he said, coach?" If he says no, I'm going to get closer and repeated it quietly. If he says yes, then we're good to go and I'm heading to my spot.

2. He calls me over to him after/as I report the Ts. I walk over, and if his first words aren't some variant of "what did he say?", then I know he doesn't want an explanation and I'm turning around and heading to my spot.

The explanation here is simply what the kid said, and won't involve any discussions about how the comments made me feel or how the coach thinks I should have called the foul his kid wanted.

I'm often willing to discuss why I didn't call a foul with a player or coach, but that little display eliminates that possibility at this point.

I knew this was going to happen……for crying out loud! READ THE FIRST THREE WORDS of the sentence from my post that caused you to react as you did above….

It is absolutely amazing how some people blatantly ignore information in order to "prove their point". This is the equivalent of ignoring the push that caused the dribbler to travel…and calling the travel. You have every right to call the travel (or purposely ignore comments made by others to make your point)…it's just that you're wrong when you do.

If you understand the value of communication and have been officiating as long as you have, then you understand WHO in certain situations (please don't make the same mistake as others who have conveniently ignored the "in certain situations"-phrase I purposely used in my previous post) need an explanation.

btw, for those who aren't as skilled and experienced as SC Official, the "people" i refer to are head coaches and players. When I say players, I do not mean players sitting on the bench; former players who are sitting in the stands; or any other person other than this: the player directly involved in the play!

I hope that clears up any confusion that someone may have. Of course, I'm sure that there will be others to come along and mis-represent/mis-interpret this post despite my best communicative intentions.

Coach's job is to coach. If he needs info from me to help him do that, and its phrased as a question that I can quickly answer to help him, help the kid, and help the game then they get explanations when asked for.

I'm not talking about "How are you calling that after you let x go?" or "What the hell?"

Its pretty common practice here that a kid gets a T/intentional/flagrant/unsportsmanlike and coaches are sending a sub to the table regardless even up into varsity and small college levels. If they aren't sure what happened they will often ask "What did they do?" and its not to start a debate its so he/she can direct the conversation they need to have with the kid.

Maybe in FIBA its a little more common because we've got some automatic unsportsmanlike fouls, that aren't the kid being dirty or excessive its just automatic in the situation, so a lot of coaches get into the habit of trying to establish if their kid was out of control or if it was just an automatic.

ie. A1 is turning the corner to breakaway B1 tries to get back in the play and knocks A1 down from the side. I come up unsportsmanlike. Now the coach is going to want to know if their player shoved/was dirty etc or if its just an automatic clear path for fouling from the side or behind. This questioning tends to get extended to any non common foul without many bad results, just information to help the coaches deal with the player and the situation.

Drama Continues!
 

Head Coach is attempting to get the player reintstated for State Playoff game On Thursday..

Coach contacted other officials not working the game that he knows well and asked them to come to the school and review the video and offer commentary..and 2 officials have done this!

I'm not surprised. It's the officials fault his player runs his mouth. Very reasonable.

Shame on the officials that showed up, all they are doing is kissing butt.

No way in hell I'd ever do this, and if I found out other officials had done it, I'd have words with them.

And I hope the state charges him for their time reviewing the tape. Assuming it happened as you saw it and the video backs it up, the coach should have no complaints.

If officials did that in our organization, the situation would be brought to our ethics committee and there would likely be sanctions.

You guys have an ethics committee?? Hoe does that work?

Camron's Association has a very good ethics committee, and very well spelled out guidelines. I know this because some of the guys who get busted there come across the river and join my association! :o

We have similar processes...and the coaches around here know better than to ask other officials to come in and view a tape like that.

This little fact should be reported to your local association president as well as the state sanctioning body along with the names of the two officials that actually responded. The officials would face heavy consequences here. That's about as low as you could get. I'd definitely scratch them going forward.

Yes. We do.

There is a standing committee of 6 people with rotating 3 year appointments (2 out, 2 new each year) plus 1 board member. The people who are chosen are typically those known for making sure things are done right and some people who have careers that have dealt with such types of things...people who have a reputation of being above reproach and of being non-political. Some are attorneys, some government officials, etc.

Usually, it starts with someone registering a complaint with the board. If the board deems the complaint worthy of further investigation, they refer it to the ethics committee. The committee then does an investigation and makes a recommendation to the board. If the committee finds that no ethics violation has occurred, then it is over. The board could take action anyway but they never have. If the committee finds that their was a violation, then the board has, so far, gone with the committee's findings.

I was called on by the committee to investigate one such complaint where there were accusations of vote tampering with a recent board election. He was accused of obtaining information about the vote results (who was winning, who had or had not voted, etc.) through RefTown while it was in progress and using that information. The person that was being investigated was a strong supporter of a candidate that ultimately didn't win...and not the one I supported. With the vote being handled through RefTown, I analyzed all activity relating to the vote and found that no such activity ever occurred by the accused or by any one else and the report I wrote cleared the person on all points of the accusation. That was the end of the case.


Other have received post-season bans of up to 2 years.