Is this a travel? (Video)
 

This was discussed on a fan site.

Tell me why or why not this is a travel?

I will hang up and listen for your answer. :D

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Peace

Guess it's a HTBT situation ;)

Yep funny guy!!! :)

Peace

Travel. Dribble ends while player's left foot is in contact with the court (making it the pivot foot), then alights off the pivot foot. At this point, for a jump stop to be legal, the player must return to the court with both feet simultaneously. Instead, the right foot lands in a step, followed by the pivot foot returning to the court before the player releases on the try for goal.

This is actually easier to call on the court than many will think. Both feet landing simultaneously in a legal jump stop is almost always followed by a pause while the player looks for someone to pass to, or an immediate jump shot. This was not the case here, so if it was noted when the dribble ended, the travel call is easy.

Block.

This is true. That happened first. Was that one of the multiple choice answers from the OP? :D

The OP was not a multiple choice question. ;)

It was "Tell me why or why not this is a travel?"

So, I did.

Block prior to the travel.

Agree.....block. If it were not for the block, she may have been able to complete a proper jump stop....but we'll never know.

Block...in NCAA-Men's that would be a common foul, not shooting, because of the upward motion facet of the rule set.

Ignoring that, question. Since most all agree there was a block, what about the fact that her pivot foot came back down before releasing the shot? Are we counting the basket and ignoring the travel?

Nope. I would not even have her in the act of shooting at the time of the block. A player coming down on a jump stop is not yet in the act of shooting IMO.

For whatever reason here, they want anytime that a player gathers the ball and is fouled a shooting foul. Havent figured out if that is an association thing or from the state but its not one I'm fond one.

Two Cents ...
 

Block.

Continuous motion (during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try … permitted to complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight).

Travel.

No basket.

Two free throws.

Or, to keep things simple, figure that everything balances out (one coach avoids a foul on his player, the other gets some points), and don't blow the whistle, like these guys did. That's a rule? Right?

I don't include landing from a jump stop to be part of the movements that habitually precede the shot. It is a separate motion in my opinion.

Continuation ???
 

Even if accompanied by "customary arm movement(s)"?

Coming down is not customary arm movement....and I've never seen a player shoot the ball on the way down in a jump stop.

Over Under ...
 

Not even the "over under" move when a shooter sees that his shot may be blocked, and "buttonhooks" the shot around the blocker's outstretched arms, and hands? But, in this "over under" (like a kind of double pump) case, many officials, including me, would not call that continuous motion if the shooter was fouled on the first motion.

So with just shooter's move, alone, described above, without a foul, could a player shoot the ball on the way down? I say, "Yes".

Different moves, different results.

Per NCAA-Men's, the answer is no. YMMV

NCAA Rules ??? Like Sgt. Schultz, I Know Nothing ...
 

Sorry. I thought the video was from a high school game.

So, under NCAA rules, an airborne shooter, who, at the apex of his jump, decides that his shot will be blocked, and decides to wait a split second and shoot the ball on the way down, before landing, to possibly avoid the blocked shot, is performing an illegal act.

So, Camron Rust's statement, "I've never seen a player shoot the ball on the way down in a jump stop", is not only true (he really has never seen this move), but it's also illegal? What's the NCAA infraction, illegal shot?

I don't read anything like that in BNR's post.

It seems as though you're either trying to troll, or being intentionally obtuse,.

That player has already raised the ball as part of the shooting motion.

In NCAA-Men's a player who has gathered, but not yet performed an upward motion as part of the habitual shooting motion, will not get credited with a shooting foul.

lol @ "accompanied by customary arm movements"

Block, waive off the basket, shoot two.

How do you have a no-call here?

Legal ???
 

I was actually asking everyone, not just BadNewsRef, about Camron Rust's statement ...

... because, even though I don't know a lot about NCAA rules, I still believe that this move would be legal ...

This is not a situation regarding continuation, since a foul is not involved with my play. I still say "Yes. A player could shoot the ball on the way down to a jump stop", but, again, I don't know a lot about NCAA rules.

Camron Rust states that he's never seen this. I believe him. But it can happen, I've seen it, and I believe that it would be legal.

The two plays just don't look the same. Double pumping to avoid a potential blocked shot looks completely different. In a jump stop play, the player will pretty obviously not be trying to shoot the ball before going back up vs. the double pump shooter. Plus, most jump shooters will have already exceeded the foot movements that would allow them to jump stop so shooting is really the only option on those plays.

I'm Certainly Not Being Obtuse ...
 

And you aren't following the thread.

I have been responding to this statement:

I believe Camron Rust when he states that he has never observed this, but I have. Why would he lie?

I would like Camron Rust to consider the possibility that this play (shoot the ball on the way down in a jump stop) could actually happen, and then deal with the ramifications of that happening, which would include, in my opinion, no continuation in the play if the shooter had been fouled on the first shooting move upward, not the second shooting motion, on the "over under" move when a shooter sees that his shot may be blocked, and "buttonhooks" the shot around the blocker's outstretched arms, and hands (a kind of double pump).

That's all. Nothing obtuse about that.

Michael Jordon-esque ...
 

Agree. I was thinking about one of those Michael Jordon-esque plays where the airborne shooter seems to hang in the air for about ten seconds, not just a common, garden variety, jump shot.

Note: My use of hyperbole would have definitely impressed my high school, English teacher, Mr. Baumgartner.

You haven't seen it.

If a player shoots the ball on the way down, then it's not a jump stop.

Jump (For My Love) (The Pointer Sisters, 1983) ...
 

He's an airborne shooter, he eventually has to land. As an airborne shooter, he had to elevate, or jump, and he stopped descending when he hit the floor. All kinds of physical laws are involved here. Newton would have loved to study this play. Let me check Rule 4 to find a proper term, or definition. No jump stop in Rule 4. Maybe I could call it a landing? Better? Wait? No landing in Rule 4.

Now, if you are referring to the various legal methods of moving one's feet while holding the ball, as described in 4-44 (not identified as jump stop by the NFHS), you're right.