Casebook play - pushing foul on rebounded while shot is in the air
 

Can anyone tell me if there's a casebook play addressing the following situation:

Player a one attempt to three-point shot. While the shot is in the air, B1 pushes 82 while jogging for rebounding position. As the try goes through the hoop, the official blows his whistle for the file on B1. Both teams are in the double bonus.

My partner who had made the call, got a little bit confused and couldn't explain to the coach. So I did. I told the coach that because we were in bonus, that the shot counted, and then the player who got pushed would be shooting two free throws for the double bonus. The coach believed that the other team should just be given the ball back from Outabounds throw in underneath the basket.

Can anyone site for me if there's a kids book play addressing this.?

Can't have team control while a try/tap is in flight, any foul by a player,other than an airborne shooter, will be shot if a team is in bonus. Or no shots for a double foul.

Your speech-to-text took some liberties with some of the words ! ;) But, I'm pretty sure I figured it out.

You were certainly correct but in just a few moments of searching I have not found a specific case covering the play.

The only singular fouls for which we do not shoot FTs are team control and player control fouls. When the ball is in the air for a try neither team control nor player control exist. Therefor, it is not one of the foul types for which we do not shoot FTs. Head to the FT line.

Kids Book = Casebook ???
 

So that explains it. The text was actually distracting me from answering the question. At first I thought that "kids book" meant the Illustrated Rulebook.

Whistles & Stripes must have a new toy.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...0&pid=15.1&P=0

Yes, the speech to text definitely did me in. But I'm glad you guys figured it out. I know that we administered it correctly by shooting a free-throw's. I'm just headed down to referee some games where the same coach will be today, I was hoping to have the casebook played a showing. I'll do some digging in the book a little bit once I get there. I'm still driving right now.

I'm sure you meant ". . . B1 pushes A2 . . ."
The applicable rule is 4-12-6 . . . Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal." (italics added)
Case Book 4.12 COMMENT reiterates that statement.
The only Case Book play I found, that addresses a similar play is 10.6.1 SITUATION B. That SIT. addresses a violation and a foul while the ball is in flight during a shot attempt, and includes the bonus being in effect.

Be Safe ...
 

Why did he think you shouldn't shoot free throws?

Made it safely.

He didn't have a particular reason. He just thought it should be the other team's ball for a throw-in. I explained the whole concept about how there was no team control, therefore, you shoot bonus if the foul count warrants it. He was just having a rough night. Or at least his team was. It happened to be his player's 4th foul, and he didn't sub the kid out. When his team got the ball back after the FTs, that same player attempted a shot at the other end of the floor, missed, and then went right through an opponent trying to get to the rebound and sent the opponent right to the floor. Yeah, that was number 5 on said player. Game over for him before halftime. He actually came out for the second half in street clothes to watch the remainder of the game.

I would have just said, "Coach, we're in the bonus. I don't understand why you don't think we should be shooting. What am I missing?"

Put it on him to explain why you shouldn't be shooting.

The Odd Couple ...
 

Odd, and odd again.

Player with four fouls, still in the game, in the first half (even three is pushing the envelope, especially early in the second period).

Player changing into street clothes, during halftime, because he was disqualified (I have, literally, never observed this, thirty-four years, and counting).

Was this game played in Bizarro World? It is certainly a different brand of basketball compared to what we play here in Connecticut.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...2&pid=15.1&P=0

Some coaches just think that multiple bad things can't happen at once, especially not to their team. Earlier this year, BV, 3 point shot in the air, A1 shoves B1 underneath. Shot is good. A's ball. Coach B was incredulous. "No way do they get the basket and the ball!" This coach was significantly younger than I am, but certainly old enough to know better than this.

Join The Club ...
 

In my world, all the coaches are significantly younger than me. Maybe that's why they don't often challenge me. They figure that the guy with the gray hair, who's been around the block several times, and who has attended a lot of rodeos, knows more about the rules than they do. Sometimes being old is good thing, not often, but sometimes. Am I right, Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?

:)

"Coach, this isn't football, they don't have to decline the penalty to keep the score."

I find it disturbing when a "veteran" coach doesn't know a fundamental rule. A few years ago a GV coach who had been around a long time (she's since retired) assured me that on a throw-in the thrower could not jump up and return to the floor. I offered to bet her double or nothing on the game fee.

Watching the game before mine this year, and the visitors' varsity coach was sitting behind the bench commenting on the game. V had the ball in the FC and threw it into the BC, V1 followed the ball and waited (I really don't know why they do this) until the H player got close before touching it and getting the BC call. The officials started to put the ball in play at the spot of the violation (where it was touched) and the V coach kept chirping from behind the bench that it should be at half court.

A lot of officials would back him up on that one.

The guys on that game did. :(

We talked to them at half time.

Just Who's Teaching This Anyway ???
 

I know why they do this.

V1 thinks that he can immediately steal the ball as soon a H touches it, thus avoiding the backcourt violation and maintaining control of the ball.

I have never seen this work. In fifty years of basketball as a player, coach, fan , and official, I have never, ever, seen this work.

In a few cases I have seen H just grab the ball, and go in for a layup, with V1 having to foul H.

In most cases V1, after a second, or two, just decides that this maneuver just isn't going to work and touches the ball for the backcourt violation, moving the throwin a bit closer to the basket than if he had just touched it as soon as possible for the violation.

Nothing good ever comes from the maneuver. Never ever.

This would make sense if he waited til H actually touched it. I've never seen them wait that long. I always see them wait til the defense gets close, then the offense touches it first to prevent the fast break. You'd think if this was the thought process, at least one kid would try it.

And when the defender gets close, they try to screen him away (why?) sometimes picking up a foul at this point.

Why ??? Because We Like You ...
 

Good point. I still haven't figured out the screening aspect of this maneuver. With apologies to Winston Churchill, this entire strategy is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

My response.

You're right coach, there are 30 arenas where that is the rule, but we're not in one of them.

This is a good reason to understand NCAA and NBA rules... The more we understand the other rule sets, the better perspective we might get.