WVU/Kansas Traveling (Video)
 

Can someone post clip. 14:47 1st half. WV player gathers ball while one knee is on the floor. He then stands up. Looks like an easy traveling call. Is the College rule different?

While we are at it, I would say the final play (WVU game-winner with 3 seconds left) is worth some discussion.

He traveled. ..but the losing coach won't complain.

I agree on both points.

I hate that this isn't called. This one was especially egregious.

A.R. 198. Is it traveling when a player:
1. Falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a
pivot foot; or
2. Falls to the playing court on both knees while holding the ball without
maintaining a pivot foot; or
3. Gains control of the ball while sliding on the playing court and then,
because of momentum, rolls or slides, after which the player passes or
starts a dribble before getting to his feet?
RULING 1 and 2: Yes, when the pivot foot is not maintained
because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when
falling to the playing floor.
3: No. The player may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a timeout.
Once the player has the ball and is no longer sliding, he may not
roll over. When flat on his back, the player may sit up without
violating. When the player puts the ball on the floor, then rises
and is the first to touch the ball, it also is traveling. When a
player rises to his feet while holding the ball and moves the
pivot foot, it is traveling. When a player falls to one knee while
holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.

And he didn't. He called it a "good move" and said his defense was terrible.

(And there's no doubt the right foot was the pivot and was replanted.)

Which means (to summarize) that the college rule is in fact different. NFHS doesn't allow for either a player to rise or fall even partially regardless of the pivot foot's status while NCAA does allow rising/falling if a pivot foot is maintained.

You ever seen a player fall to the floor and maintain a pivot foot?

I have seen them fall to the floor without having establish a pivot foot in the first place.

So would that be traveling in NCAA?

I would consider diving to the floor to get a loose ball be the same as falling to the floor without a pivot foot. So, I don't think falling to the floor without having established a pivot foot is a violation.

Yes.

Incorrect. To be legal the player has to obtain control of the ball after being on the floor. Having control (holding the ball) and then falling to the floor is always a violation.

I suppose I'm not envisioning how someone could be standing on two feet and then fall to the floor without having established a pivot first. I can picture someone gaining possession of the ball mid-air and then landing on the floor without either foot touching the floor.

If the ball is loose, then the player doesn't possess it. And if a player doesn't possess the ball, how does he establish a pivot foot?

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Travel...although the call would have been easier if I wasn't straight lined by the score of the game. :)

As Bob and Camron point out it is different. Saying the same thing in a different way---In NFHS if you are holding the ball the only thing allowed to touch the floor is the hand or foot. If you bend over and your knee hits it is a violation...even if your pivot foot never moves. Also, in NFHS, if you get the ball with a knee already on the floor you cannot stand up without first dribbling the ball.

In NCAAM you can touch the floor with knee etc...gain ball on floor and stand IF you keep a pivot foot.

I don't know about this one. I thought the player started dribbling close enough to the lifting of the knee at first watch, but if you slow it down it's clearly a travel first. Don't think I would get this one right on the court.

Having two feet on the floor doesn't mean the player is in a stable position.

Example...player jumps for the ball, catches it in mid-air, lands on one foot followed by the other but is off balance. They fall to the floor such that the first foot down doesn't move. Certainly not common, but not really that improbable either.

Your right..when a person holding the ball starts to fall one foot is likely to move or come up first making the other the pivot. Then the fall and the pivot foot is not held. As NCAA notes in ar 198-falling to floor and keeping pivot foot "virtually impossible."

I've seen a player have two feet down for an instant, no pivot foot ESTABLISHED yet, both feet then fly out in front of him, he goes down with ball. Jump stop play. He was leaning back when he landed on two feet. He never established pivot foot but it is travel under rules and case book plays. That is travel because although the right or left foot was never established as THE pivot..one of them was and it moved. (we talked about this some weeks ago in connection with player jumping in air before establishing pivot foot and then dribbling...there's a case play that talks about having a pivot foot even though you dont have it "established" yet--4.44.3B.

Didn't see this post earlier.

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definitely travelled once. Might have travelled twice.