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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   NFHS Questionnaire (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99294-nfhs-questionnaire.html)

so cal lurker Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956652)
I was also emailed the NFHS questionnaire. It came to me via MSHAA.

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. I answered "yes"

Basketball is the only sport that has a limit. A football player can have 17 holding penalties in a game without disqualification. A hockey player can have 12 tripping penalties without disqualification. What makes basketball different? If we are worried about a foul fest, 1 more is not going to break the bank. In light of the hand check emphasis, we are seeing starter A1 going to the bench with 2 fouls and sitting until the start of the second half because he picked up "2 quick ones".

And then throw in the 2 Twenty minute halves possibility, there is 4 more mintes of game time. (Yes, I believe the NCAA should be 6 also)

Just curious of reasoning behind all of the "no" responses in the sticky note that Billy posted....
I suspect it is because if players are permitted an additional foul there will be more physical play. In my mind 5 is plenty for HS and College. (IIRC correctly one of the conferences experimente with 6 PFs [Big East?] in the late 80s; after a couple of years they wnet back to 5.)

(BTW, soccer has something slightly similar, albeit rarely invoked. A soccer player can be cautioned and then dismissed for "persistent infringement" of the laws of the game -- whcih generally refers to fouls. But there is not a magic number of fouls.)

AremRed Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956652)
I was also emailed the NFHS questionnaire. It came to me via MSHAA.

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. I answered "yes"

Basketball is the only sport that has a limit. A football player can have 17 holding penalties in a game without disqualification. A hockey player can have 12 tripping penalties without disqualification. What makes basketball different? If we are worried about a foul fest, 1 more is not going to break the bank. In light of the hand check emphasis, we are seeing starter A1 going to the bench with 2 fouls and sitting until the start of the second half because he picked up "2 quick ones".

And then throw in the 2 Twenty minute halves possibility, there is 4 more mintes of game time. (Yes, I believe the NCAA should be 6 also)

Just curious of reasoning behind all of the "no" responses in the sticky note that Billy posted....
6 fouls means I have to call more on your idiot troublemaker player before he sits down to cool off. And that means the other team is shooting bonus earlier. Do you really want that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 956656)
But there is not a magic number of fouls.
Yes there is, it's 4. :D

CoachP Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:29pm
I understand about college. But their teams are generally 12-15 players deep. You can throw goons out there just to use up the foul count and protect your starters at the end of a close game.

In a C size school, (Michigan has A B C and D classes) like us, 20 district kids from being a class D, we have 4 on the bench. Meaning an injury and foul trouble means I have to suit up. :D

CoachP Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:31pm
[QUOTE=AremRed;956659]6 fouls means I have to call more on your idiot troublemaker player before he sits down to cool off. And that means the other team is shooting bonus earlier. Do you really want that?



If he is an idiot -trouble maker, a T and a PF at once gets him out all the quicker!

I don't think reaching and over the back are quite the troublemaker fouls.:D

Mark Padgett Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956661)
Meaning an injury and foul trouble means I have to suit up. :D
Didn't you get disqualified? I thought you flunked algebra. :eek:

CoachP Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:38pm
1981- I fouled out in the second quarter. So did the man I was guarding.

Raymond Mon Mar 02, 2015 01:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956652)
I was also emailed the NFHS questionnaire. It came to me via MSHAA.

5. Permitting a player to have six personal fouls. I answered "yes"

Basketball is the only sport that has a limit. A football player can have 17 holding penalties in a game without disqualification. A hockey player can have 12 tripping penalties without disqualification. What makes basketball different? If we are worried about a foul fest, 1 more is not going to break the bank. In light of the hand check emphasis, we are seeing starter A1 going to the bench with 2 fouls and sitting until the start of the second half because he picked up "2 quick ones".

And then throw in the 2 Twenty minute halves possibility, there is 4 more mintes of game time. (Yes, I believe the NCAA should be 6 also)

Just curious of reasoning behind all of the "no" responses in the sticky note that Billy posted....
I don't like extra chances for players to foul. I'm good with 5, and always will be.

bballref3966 Mon Mar 02, 2015 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956662)
I don't think reaching and over the back are quite the troublemaker fouls.:D
You're right, reaching and over the back aren't fouls at all.

APG Mon Mar 02, 2015 01:46pm
Coach P...I merged your thread with the existing thread.

Adam Mon Mar 02, 2015 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956662)
I don't think reaching and over the back are quite the troublemaker fouls.:D
If you've got kids fouling out on these calls, your issue is with the officiating, not the rules. :)

so cal lurker Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 956664)
1981- I fouled out in the second quarter. So did the man I was guarding.
Ahh. So that's why you think fouls should go up to 6.:cool:

CoachP Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 956670)
You're right, reaching and over the back aren't fouls at all.
Thats why the big green :D

jTheUmp Mon Mar 02, 2015 02:37pm
NFHS games are 32 minutes long... (36 minutes in MN... 18-minute halves).
5 fouls / 32 minutes = 1 foul per 6.4 minutes.


NBA games are 48 minutes long.
6 fouls / 48 minutes = 1 foul every 8 minutes.


Adding a 6th foul to NFHS games would allow one foul every 5.3 minutes.


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