OT - another coach that should be taken out and horsewhipped
 

When is this going to stop? :(

http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-gro...h_schoo_1.html

I don't understand what switch gets turned at 18 where then it's ok all of a sudden. Arbitrary age laws just seem...so arbitrary. Then there's the whole discussion about when is old enough.

With that said I find it hard to imagine there are NO legally aged women for this guy to pursue.

in Europe and other places the age of consent is lower but that being said a coach should never do that. High schools have to be careful and really watch that because a lot of these coaches tend to be younger.

age / 2 + 7

The specific age could certainly be argued but the laws often have an age differential element such that if the older person in the situation is less than 3 years older than the younger one, it is not a crime...that is, if the boy (usually the case) is 19 and the girl is 17, it is not against the law. But 17 and 21 is. They're trying to cover the maturity window and are saying that if you're that much older than the teen, you really should both know better and are old enough and mature enough to be able to inappropriately manipulate a teenager...but similar aged teens would not be.

Never.

We're a nation of 316 million people. That's a massive number, so to think that anything is never going to happen again is naive. That doesn't make it right, but don't count on it stopping.

+1

As bad as his behavior may have been, there's a lot going on here. The girl's mom was in favor of and encouraged the relationship with the coach...The mother "acted as a chaperone to help facilitate a quasi-dating relationship between the two. When confronted by police about the relationship, the mother told police, 'this is (expletive)' and 'age shouldn't matter.'"

Before we horsewhip this guy, we should probably bring the mother along for a few lashes as well.

Jeez Louise...where the hell are these people from? Appalachia?

Sorry, from this I thought the article was about a 20 y/o coach and a 17 y/o player or something. 30-16? That's not arbitrary. It's wrong, and he should know better regardless of how supportive her mother was.

Your response is wildly subjective and arbitrary. The argument isn't that there is an acceptable range, it's what is acceptable between the 2, and how do we define that age is the determining factor when it comes to certain decisions but not others.

We have laws based on what's best for a group but 20-16, 30-16, or even 60-16, as morally disgusting I may think that is projecting my values on others. If both parties understand the implications and make a lucid decision who cares. That's the basis of my comment. Is why do we make a big deal over arbitrarily designated values that are different based on the 2 involved.

In our case, for sexual contact, we have deemed 18 as the fail safe for when someone is "old" enough to do what they may want to with their body.

If this was 18-30, would you be ok with it? If so, what changed, besides the legality of the situation?

having lived overseas and seen people 16 dating men about 30, sure that could be ok...not that I would support it. But the MAIN issue here is the relationship can lead to abuse. You should never have a teacher or a coach involved with a student. I don't care what the age of consent rules are or if a parent wanted it; that is 100% wrong. High Schools need to be on watch for this because you have people developing sexually at this time and there could be mutual attraction especially with younger coaches. Once they are out of high school, I don't care.
If a coach is having a relationship with an 18 year-old senior player, I'd immediately fire the coach. And I'm sure any respectable high school would.

I'll answer this, but this is on the verge of veering completely off the rails.

No, I wouldn't be ok with it: especially in the case of a coach/player relationship. Even college coaches aren't allowed to date their players, for good reason. High school coaches dating high school seniors on their team?

The other fact is, this guy is not exactly being plopped into our culture in a vacuum. He's fully aware of the legalities and ethics involved.

I'll concede there's an "arbitrary" nature to this law, but there's no way around that. Obviously (to most of us in America), a 30 year old teacher dating a 16 year old student is abhorrent. A 19 year old college student dating that a 17 year old student seems ok to most of us. The threshold is somewhere in the middle, and if we're enforcing laws, it has to be set somewhere by some "arbitrary" measure.

I agree with you on most points. This case is wrong on several levels, yes. My argument is simply the age limit one.

I'm from Appalachia. It does not apply. Apparently they are not related.

Seems legit.

Transplant. Once wheeled vehicles were invented many of us bailed.

In some locations, a coach/teacher/etc. is prohibited by law to have a relationship with a student irregardless of age (As Adam and MutantDucky have already stated here). If I recall, the idea is that the coach/teachr is an authority figure who might take advantage of that status (such as promising a passing grade on an exam or promising a starting spot in the upcoming crosstown rivalry game).

Update: Guilty

http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-gro...h_schoo_2.html

I'm FROM Iowa, but I can assure you the elevation there is nowhere near 7000 feet.

Let me first say that by no means do I condone this scum bag's actions.

However...he's convicted without ANY physical evidence and no witness accounts other than "heard sex noises". Also no mention of the mother's role during trial? Maybe there was more than the article states but this seems like a jury was going to punish him based on allegation. Probably deserved what he got...but I hate seeing anybody convicted without any physical evidence...this will haunt him the rest of his life.

I'm not an attorney, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn on occasion.

It's Tough Enough In The Dating Scene ...
 

It's probably not against the law, but workplace romances can also be difficult, especially when one of the romantics is the other one's superior. This could lead to sexual harassment claims against the company.

Single basketball officials who date hot, single, moms need to block that school off their schedule.

What Are You Wearing ???
 

Text messages?

Guilty until proven innocent in cases like this, it seems.

(And I have a 10-year-old daughter and I know there are creeps out there. But it seems like a flimsy case. I hope there was more than reported.)

Isn't there always more than was reported?

Oh, I'm sure. But juries are filled with moms and dads, too.

I would think that, since I read the article in about 30 seconds, there would probably be a LOT more than reported. I can't imagine a case only needing about 30 seconds to present all the facts.

He was charged with 2nd degree sexual abuse. Felony. In Oregon that requires proof of penetration. Prosecutors thought they had enough. started trial. defense motion, out of presence of jury, says there isnt enough to even let the jury consider whether 2nd degree occurred. judge agrees. (that was the mid trial motion) prosecutors amend charge/reduce it to 3rd degree. misdemeanor. requires only proof that they had sexual contact. much less required. noises and text messages are enough.

To prove sexual contact? Really?

They can be evidence, yes, if they admitted such contact in the messages. Similar to a phone recording.

Guess that's understandable. That's probably an aspect of the evidence that was never made public.

It is enough to let the jury make the decision on whether the contact occurred. steamy messages from his phone to hers and vice versa. sex noises from car. kissing can be sexual contact. add it all up and I can see letting a jury decide. That doesnt mean it has been proven, but means there is enough to let them decide. Jurors have to agree. lawyers argue. if you were on jury you could have said it isnt enough. not vote to convict. hang the jury. if that happens they let him go or retry him.

gotta go. gotta game.

This case was heard in Washington County court. Washington County Oregon is just west of Portland and the population is fairly family oriented. I live in this county and I was called once to jury duty. I was dismissed because the defense attorney was a personal friend of mine. Darn it. It was a murder trial and I really wanted to see my buddy in action.

Hard to fill a jury with pedophile coaches

Allegedly. Due process only works if it applies to the most vile, too.

Jail bait
 

This is true in Texas. It is against the law for a teacher/coach to have an "inappropriate" relationship with a student. It matters not how old the student or the teacher is. Our youngest teachers can be 21 years old and a majority of seniors turn 18 before they graduate (you can stay in school until you are 21 in some cases) so it is watched closely.

I agree, and was being a bit snarky. I'm not saying he didn't deserve due process. Just that he seems to have gotten it to the best of our (society's) ability.

A few centuries ago, when I was in HS back in the Chicago area, there was a student in my class who was dating a teacher. She started seeing him in her sophomore year. She was 16. Everyone knew about it, and we knew better than to "tease" her brother about it because he was a pretty tough guy.

She turned 18 her senior year, they got married and she dropped out with only a few months until graduation. He continued to teach there for at least 5 more years, but then I left the area so I don't know what happened after that.

I actually worked at the school (after it happened) where the lawsuit in Texas originated. Everyone in town knew about it -- school personnel, the mom, etc. and apparently no one was too concerned (he was 26, she was 17). Then he broke her heart and all of a sudden mom decided to sue. The law not only serves to punish bad behavior but because it is constantly hounded into us in trainings and meetings its also serves as a reminder.