Duke at Notre Dame (Video)
 

2:42 in the second half. There is a foul on a ND player who blocks the Duke big man. Looks like all ball, but I would like to see again.

Peace

9.2 seconds. A shooting foul on a ND defender. Was this a foul or not?

Peace

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1) Quite possible that W32's contact from behind was on the wrist.

2) I can live with this call, but it was close.

Didn't think either were fouls when watching the game. My opinion didn't change when seeing them again on the forum.

1) Who was the foul called on? I didn't see anything on W35...I couldn't tell if W32 got the arm.

2) Second (overhead) camera angle shows defender moving into shooter creating contact. Calling official had a beautiful angle. I can live with this one.

i had no fouls on either.

I don't think there was anything on the first play. Looked like ball/hand.

Second is a tough call, but I believe defender jumped into offense. Although I wouldn't argue that he landed prior to offense shooting.

Please notice that shooter in the second play significantly jumps forward.

And?

In play 1 there is no camera angle that shows where W32 makes contact with ball or player, so how can we judge if the Lead got it right? I'm trusting the Lead saw illegal contact.

Fan here. Just curious.

In play 1 (in the post) is there an opportunity for W32 to take a charge. It looks like W32 is in great position and B15 is just moving him out of the way.

Does he not take a charge because the rules don't allow it or because he doesn't think a charge is the best defense in that situation?

I might suggest to my 12 year old in that great of position to take a charge. But if it's not a good option, I'd like to understand why.

I think you mean white 35.

And, yes, one of the decisions we frequently have to make is whether the offense is displacing the defense, or whether the defense is simply giving ground.

first video no foul, but whatever not really a controversial play and those happen.
Second one is the classic case of the ref anticipating the foul because the defender got up in the air, only problem was the lack of a foul.

Play 1: Nothing. Great job by Lead leaving early while players were still tussling.

Play 2: Nothing

I think both were fine as called.

In the first, it looks like he may have hit the arm as must if not more than the ball. The lead was in perfect position to see it. The camera wasn't.

In the second, the defender never stopped moving towards the shooter. I though it was not a foul from one angle but, as Bad Zebra said, another showed he was moving towards the shooter.

First play: I'll defer to the calling official's angle on the play.

Second play: I hate plays like this where a player hesitates when taking a 3 and then jumps into the airborne defender but I think in this case, unfortunately, it's a foul.

My bad. I meant W35.

I'm assuming in this case the official thought the defense was giving ground. So the defense doesn't have to do anything but play it exactly as he did.
Then the ref decides displacing or giving?

Yup. That's a foul. The defender left his feet and moved significantly forward towards the shooter -- smart play by the shooter to draw the foul.

The overhead shot shows that #1 is probably a miss, but it's still not the look the L had, so who knows what he saw?

Correct -- and I agree with the official that W35 was giving ground and that this part of the action was NOT a foul (and I have no comment on any other part of the play)

Is there a level/age group of play where you might call the offensive player for that much advancement, and contact, as his defender "gives ground."
Does the position of the offensive player's forearm have any influence on a decision to call this an offensive foul?

If the defender is "giving ground", how is that advancement illegal?

Are there any rules prohibiting an offensive player from holding off a defender with his forearm?

I don't think I'd call this at any level I do.

And the position of the forearm can have some influence (but the movement of it has more), but not in this case.

4-24-7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble . . ."

I'm looking for input as to how one would answer those questions a) in a setting where newer officials are being trained, and b) when an official is confronted by a coach with that inquiry.

In regards to the forearm, I'm looking for extension and displacement, and hindering the normal defensive activities.

Swatting away the "reach"

Point of the Foul #8. Officials Manual, p. 70.
 

Play 1: Another excellent illustration and reason for high school officials to stick with our own prescribed mechanics versus the "fashionable" fist up and leave trend.

I'm not going to reward an offensive player for jumping into a defender.

the foul was on the player behind A1.

So did B3 have the emery board?

Sick reference. And yes I remember it. I actually was watching the game that night when it happened all those years ago. And remembering it takes me back to my younger years. :)

Stupid phone.

Maybe in your corner of the world. I don't work with anyone that gives a litany of signals before heading to the table.

1. Looked like a clean strip, but the L had a better look at any contact.

2. Blocking foul. Defender jumped forward, and made contact with the shooter with only one foot on the floor. No LGP.

Embarrassing Night for Niekro and Angels : Twins' Pitcher Ejected When Emery Board Is Found; Minnesota Romps


August 04, 1987|MIKE PENNER | Times Staff Writer <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:bottom; white-space:nowrap;zoom:1;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="gig-button-td"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td id="componentDiv_top-reaction1-left">
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</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>The emery board was made for fingernails, not knuckles or knuckleballs or any type of baseball. So when one popped out of the back pocket of Minnesota Twins' pitcher Joe Niekro during the fourth inning of Monday night's 11-3 Angel loss, Niekro soon found himself out of the game.
After the third pitch Niekro delivered to Brian Downing in the bottom of the fourth, home plate umpire Tim Tschida stopped play and ordered Niekro frisked. Tschida had Niekro pull out all of his pants pockets and with 33,983 fans at Anaheim Stadium looking on, there Niekro stood, looking like a penniless pauper.
He had enough money to invest in an emery board, however. The umpiring crew discovered it during the search, resting on the infield grass.
Niekro had tried to slicker Tschida and Co., pulling out his back pockets with one motion, bringing both arms over his head and-- flick! --discreetly dumping the file on the ground.

If B doesn't want to be liable for illegal contact, tell them to not jump forward and toward the shooter or that if they're gonna do that, go in a path that would take them clear of the shooter.

I will reward the offensive for using a pump fake effectively to draw the defense into an illegal position.

Irrelevant if the defender isn't legal.

Sorry I didn't make myself more clear. Wasn't implying officials need to go through a litany of signals; rather, who was responsible for observing and diffusing the immediate reaction of the players? The lead official or #12 from Duke?

Exactly. A jump shooter can take any path he wants to take a shot -- unless there's a legal defender in his path. There isn't. Foul on B.

How about the other two officials -- the T should be right there and the C is coming in to take the L's spot.

True and it may be the acceptable NCAA mechanics for the lead to go quickly and let the T or C handle any possible confrontation. However, it appears neither T or C made any movement here. Maybe a good thing #12 did. The Federation manual advises us not to be in a rush to leave the area.

I'm surprised more people haven't recognized this. The L is in perfect position to see this and clearly signals #32 to the table.

On the second video I've got nothing but its close. I would not have an argument with a whistle on the play.