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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 12:13am
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I think both were fine as called.

In the first, it looks like he may have hit the arm as must if not more than the ball. The lead was in perfect position to see it. The camera wasn't.

In the second, the defender never stopped moving towards the shooter. I though it was not a foul from one angle but, as Bad Zebra said, another showed he was moving towards the shooter.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 01:35pm.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 02:23am
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First play: I'll defer to the calling official's angle on the play.

Second play: I hate plays like this where a player hesitates when taking a 3 and then jumps into the airborne defender but I think in this case, unfortunately, it's a foul.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 10:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I think you mean white 35.

And, yes, one of the decisions we frequently have to make is whether the offense is displacing the defense, or whether the defense is simply giving ground.
My bad. I meant W35.

I'm assuming in this case the official thought the defense was giving ground. So the defense doesn't have to do anything but play it exactly as he did.
Then the ref decides displacing or giving?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 10:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
And?
Yup. That's a foul. The defender left his feet and moved significantly forward towards the shooter -- smart play by the shooter to draw the foul.

The overhead shot shows that #1 is probably a miss, but it's still not the look the L had, so who knows what he saw?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by ccrroo View Post
My bad. I meant W35.

I'm assuming in this case the official thought the defense was giving ground. So the defense doesn't have to do anything but play it exactly as he did.
Then the ref decides displacing or giving?
Correct -- and I agree with the official that W35 was giving ground and that this part of the action was NOT a foul (and I have no comment on any other part of the play)
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 12:50pm
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Is there a level/age group of play where you might call the offensive player for that much advancement, and contact, as his defender "gives ground."
Does the position of the offensive player's forearm have any influence on a decision to call this an offensive foul?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Is there a level/age group of play where you might call the offensive player for that much advancement, and contact, as his defender "gives ground."
If the defender is "giving ground", how is that advancement illegal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Does the position of the offensive player's forearm have any influence on a decision to call this an offensive foul?
Are there any rules prohibiting an offensive player from holding off a defender with his forearm?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 01:01pm
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I don't think I'd call this at any level I do.

And the position of the forearm can have some influence (but the movement of it has more), but not in this case.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 04:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
If the defender is "giving ground", how is that advancement illegal?



Are there any rules prohibiting an offensive player from holding off a defender with his forearm?
4-24-7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble . . ."

I'm looking for input as to how one would answer those questions a) in a setting where newer officials are being trained, and b) when an official is confronted by a coach with that inquiry.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 05:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
4-24-7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble . . ."

I'm looking for input as to how one would answer those questions a) in a setting where newer officials are being trained, and b) when an official is confronted by a coach with that inquiry.
In regards to the forearm, I'm looking for extension and displacement, and hindering the normal defensive activities.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 06:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
4-24-7 . . . It is not legal to use the hand and/or forearm to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble . . ."

I'm looking for input as to how one would answer those questions a) in a setting where newer officials are being trained, and b) when an official is confronted by a coach with that inquiry.
Swatting away the "reach"
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 11:06pm
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Point of the Foul #8. Officials Manual, p. 70.

Play 1: Another excellent illustration and reason for high school officials to stick with our own prescribed mechanics versus the "fashionable" fist up and leave trend.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Rikardo View Post
First play: I'll defer to the calling official's angle on the play.

Second play: I hate plays like this where a player hesitates when taking a 3 and then jumps into the airborne defender but I think in this case, unfortunately, it's a foul.
I'm not going to reward an offensive player for jumping into a defender.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 11:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I'm not going to reward an offensive player for jumping into a defender.
the foul was on the player behind A1.
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 12:08am.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 01, 2015, 11:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
the file was on the player behind A1.
So did B3 have the emery board?
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