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-   -   Shooting foul to end the half (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99148-shooting-foul-end-half.html)

WhistlesAndStripes Sun Jan 25, 2015 03:14am

Shooting foul to end the half
 
V1 is fouled in the act of shooting as the horn sounds signaling the end of the second quarter. As we are preparing to shoot the free throws, which are being shot right in front of the home bench, the home team begins to leave the court for halftime. One of my partners in front of the bench sounds his whistle just as I am administering the ball from the first of three free throws. He tells the home team that they can't be up and moving below the free-throw line so they either need to sit down or leave the court. I tell him he should keep them on the bench. He goes ahead and lets them leave to go to their locker room before The free throws are administered. We then administer the free throws after which the visitors head out to their locker room.

So, which is correct? Should the team that is not involved in the free throws be allowed to leave the court prior to V1 shooting his free throws, or should they be required to remain on the court until the quarter has actually ended with the shooting of the free throws?

Rich1 Sun Jan 25, 2015 03:53am

Both teams must stay until the quarter has ended which is after the freethrows. Leaving the court before hand is considered "unauthorized" and will earn the coach a direct T.

Nevadaref Sun Jan 25, 2015 04:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 952015)
V1 is fouled in the act of shooting as the horn sounds signaling the end of the second quarter. As we are preparing to shoot the free throws, which are being shot right in front of the home bench, the home team begins to leave the court for halftime. One of my partners in front of the bench sounds his whistle just as I am administering the ball from the first of three free throws. He tells the home team that they can't be up and moving below the free-throw line so they either need to sit down or leave the court. I tell him he should keep them on the bench. He goes ahead and lets them leave to go to their locker room before The free throws are administered. We then administer the free throws after which the visitors head out to their locker room.

So, which is correct? Should the team that is not involved in the free throws be allowed to leave the court prior to V1 shooting his free throws, or should they be required to remain on the court until the quarter has actually ended with the shooting of the free throws?

Straight from the NFHS Case Book:
UNAUTHORIZED LEAVING OF THE BENCH AREA/PLAYING COURT
10.5.5 SITUATION A: Airborne shooter A1 is fouled by B1 after the ball is
released on the try. Playing time for the second quarter expires while the unsuccessful
try is in flight. Since no players are required to line up for the free throws,
Team B’s head coach takes the team to the locker room to begin the intermission.
RULING: Team B’s head coach is assessed a direct technical foul for permitting
team members to leave the bench/court for an unauthorized reason. Even though
no time remains on the game clock, the quarter doesn’t end until A1’s free throws
are completed; therefore, the technical foul is part of the second quarter. A1 will
attempt the two shooting-foul free throws followed by any Team A member
attempting the two free throws for the technical foul. The Team B head coach has
lost coaching-box privileges for the remainder of the game. The third quarter will
begin with the alternating-possession procedure. (5-6-2 Exception 3)

AremRed Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:43am

What prevents me from authorizing the team to leave the floor?

bainsey Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952022)
What prevents me from authorizing the team to leave the floor?

See Nevada's citation.

BigCat Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952022)
What prevents me from authorizing the team to leave the floor?

You have Nevada's play. Also, if you look at Rule 10 you can see that the rules dont authorize you to authorize them to leave. A team has to occupy bench it is assigned. Players are required to sit etc when game going on. The half isnt over until the free throws are shot. They give the T to the coach rather than penalize each player.. These are rules just like the rule where player gets 5 fouls. I cant authorize or say he gets a 6th foul. That is an extreme example, but these other things are rules too.

I think the penalty is harsh. Not a fan of it. I make sure teams stay at bench so i dont have to call it. thx

AremRed Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 952023)
See Nevada's citation.

If I as the R authorize the team to leave, wouldn't that be an authorized reason? The NFHS has not given us a list of authorized/unauthorized reasons for leaving the floor so I believe I am free to use my good judgement to determine what is and is not an 'authorized reason'. 2-3.

BigCat Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952028)
If I as the R authorize the team to leave, wouldn't that be an authorized reason? The NFHS has not given us a list of authorized/unauthorized reasons for leaving the floor so I believe I am free to use my good judgement to determine what is and is not an 'authorized reason'. 2-3.

see above. thx

AremRed Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 952029)
see above. thx

You're not getting it guys. This case play clearly implies that leaving the court before the ending action of a quarter is an 'unauthorized reason' but given that the NFHS has not created a list detailing exactly what is and is not an authorized reason to leave the floor, I believe I am free to authorize and unauthorize according to my judgement. In this case I wouldn't mess with it.

Adam Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952032)
You're not getting it guys. This case play clearly implies that leaving the court before the ending action of a quarter is an 'unauthorized reason' but given that the NFHS has not created a list detailing exactly what is and is not an authorized reason to leave the floor, I believe I am free to authorize and unauthorize according to my judgement. In this case I wouldn't mess with it.

The case play tells you this is not an authorized reason. You don't have the authority to override this any more than you can "decide" A1 going around a screen is an authorized reason.

What are authorized reasons? Letting a team member go to the locker room to tend to an injury or sickness.

"Coach, you and your team need to remain at your bench until the FTs are completed." If he doesn't comply, then we have 4 free throws to shoot while he's in the locker room, and he'll come back to a seat belt.

BillyMac Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:22pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
10-5-5: The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench
area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.

bob jenkins Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952032)
You're not getting it guys. This case play clearly implies that leaving the court before the ending action of a quarter is an 'unauthorized reason' but given that the NFHS has not created a list detailing exactly what is and is not an authorized reason to leave the floor, I believe I am free to authorize and unauthorize according to my judgement. In this case I wouldn't mess with it.

Yes, we are.

As I told someone else, while I respect your beliefs, they are not relevant here.

frezer11 Sun Jan 25, 2015 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952032)
You're not getting it guys. This case play clearly implies that leaving the court before the ending action of a quarter is an 'unauthorized reason' but given that the NFHS has not created a list detailing exactly what is and is not an authorized reason to leave the floor, I believe I am free to authorize and unauthorize according to my judgement. In this case I wouldn't mess with it.

I think I see what your point is here, but not sure. While I disagree with you that we have the authority to allow a team to leave or not, in the OP, I don't think I'd have a T. The reason being is that if my partner had mistakenly allowed the coach to take his team to the locker room, I'm not going to give them a tech when they were told they could. I think the best way to handle this is to have an official stop them and basically not allow them to leave. If they ignore the warning, then they dig their own grave, but if you tell them they can? Not a good Tech to give, especially for an act that has no real bearing on the game.

LeeBallanfant Sun Jan 25, 2015 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 952022)
What prevents me from authorizing the team to leave the floor?

A good reason would be that if Team A was assessed a TF before shots were completed, you would have nobody from Team B to shoot them.

Rich Sun Jan 25, 2015 03:25pm

You have as much right to authorize the teams to leave in this situation as you do to award 4 points for a half-court basket.

frezer11 Sun Jan 25, 2015 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 952090)
You have as much right to authorize the teams to leave in this situation as you do to award 4 points for a half-court basket.

Haha! One of my favorite quotes from a player I didn't care much for, once when asked why Antoine Walker took so many 3's, his response was, "Because they don't have a 4-point shot..."

WhistlesAndStripes Mon Jan 26, 2015 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 952040)
"Coach, you and your team need to remain at your bench until the FTs are completed." If he doesn't comply, then we have 4 free throws to shoot while he's in the locker room, and he'll come back to a seat belt.

Actually, if we had wanted to stick it to him, we would have had 5 FTs to shoot since it was a 3 point try that the foul occurred on.

Thanks for the education on the rule here. I was pretty sure they were supposed to stay, but wasn't going to make a big deal of it as there was really no harm done in allowing them to leave, other then the couple of seconds it took them to vacate the bench before we shot the free throws.

And if my partner told a team they could leave, I'm certainly not going to stick a coach who was told it was OK to go.

Adam Tue Jan 27, 2015 09:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 952277)
Actually, if we had wanted to stick it to him, we would have had 5 FTs to shoot since it was a 3 point try that the foul occurred on.

Thanks for the education on the rule here. I was pretty sure they were supposed to stay, but wasn't going to make a big deal of it as there was really no harm done in allowing them to leave, other then the couple of seconds it took them to vacate the bench before we shot the free throws.

And if my partner told a team they could leave, I'm certainly not going to stick a coach who was told it was OK to go.

I agree, not a hill to die on, IMO.

Refhoop Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 952017)
Straight from the NFHS Case Book:
UNAUTHORIZED LEAVING OF THE BENCH AREA/PLAYING COURT
10.5.5 SITUATION A: Airborne shooter A1 is fouled by B1 after the ball is
released on the try. Playing time for the second quarter expires while the unsuccessful
try is in flight. Since no players are required to line up for the free throws,
Team B’s head coach takes the team to the locker room to begin the intermission.
RULING: Team B’s head coach is assessed a direct technical foul for permitting
team members to leave the bench/court for an unauthorized reason. Even though
no time remains on the game clock, the quarter doesn’t end until A1’s free throws
are completed; therefore, the technical foul is part of the second quarter. A1 will
attempt the two shooting-foul free throws followed by any Team A member
attempting the two free throws for the technical foul. The Team B head coach has
lost coaching-box privileges for the remainder of the game. The third quarter will
begin with the alternating-possession procedure. (5-6-2 Exception 3)

Here's my question: Do the starters need to remain on the floor (30 second time out-like) while the free throws are being shot or can all the players sit on the bench, get a drink of water etc... provided they remain in the court area?

Raymond Tue Dec 29, 2015 08:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 952016)
Both teams must stay until the quarter has ended which is after the freethrows. Leaving the court before hand is considered "unauthorized" and will earn the coach a direct T.

Yep, had this in my game yesterday. Team wanted to leave I told them they had to stay until free throws were shot. I received no flack in response.

ODog Tue Dec 29, 2015 09:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refhoop (Post 974473)
Here's my question: Do the starters need to remain on the floor (30 second time out-like) while the free throws are being shot or can all the players sit on the bench, get a drink of water etc... provided they remain in the court area?

Not the starters, necessarily, but the 10 players who were on the court at the time the horn sounded should remain on the court so you're able to differentiate between players and bench personnel.

It's not halftime, after all, until the FTs and all related activity have ended.

The distinction is key as it relates to potential technical fouls and how the head coach may be impacted.

BlueDevilRef Tue Dec 29, 2015 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 952090)
You have as much right to authorize the teams to leave in this situation as you do to award 4 points for a half-court basket.


A half court shot is worth 4 points? Duly noted


I wish I had a cool signature

crosscountry55 Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 974481)
A half court shot is worth 4 points? Duly noted


I wish I had a cool signature

Dude, you weren't even a forum member yet when he said that.

Party foul. :D

frezer11 Wed Dec 30, 2015 01:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 974503)
Dude, you weren't even a forum member yet when he said that.

Party foul. :D

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha............

Is there a limit to how many times I'm allowed to put "ha" repeated by itself?

WhistlesAndStripes Wed Dec 30, 2015 01:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 974520)
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha............



Is there a limit to how many times I'm allowed to put "ha" repeated by itself?


No.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HokiePaul Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant (Post 952083)
A good reason would be that if Team A was assessed a TF before shots were completed, you would have nobody from Team B to shoot them.

Not that other reasons are needed since the case book is very clear, but letting the team leave would give one team them a longer halftime break as well.


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