Throw-in
 

My question is...Can a player that has a spot throw-in bounce the ball before the throw-in?

What makes you think he cannot?

I had this happen to me on Sat. night and the Coach wanted a violation called, but I did not make it.

For rab3838, the answer is "yes". Absolutely. See the "NOTE" at the end of Rule 4-43. In fact, doesn't matter if it's a designated sport throw-in or not.

You'll find coaches think all sorts of actions are violations. They're rarely right. He's probably had it called against him by a brand new official.

Spot throw-in: What if the inbounder dribbles it off his foot and the ball rolls outside the 3-foot box while remaining out of bounds. Is it violation immediately or do u wait until the five second count?

Violation immediately.

Okay to bounce it as long as he doesn't bounce it inbounds.

9.2.2 SITUATION D:

A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area before making a throw-in.

RULING: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

Wait until an actual violation occurs -- either five seconds or the thrower leaving the designated spot.

What violation has occurred pray tell?

Never start a sentence this way. :rolleyes:

You are giving coaches too much credit, :p.

MTD, Sr.

You're right, I was thinking of the free throw scenario. That's a violation immediately. This, you can wait 5 seconds or use the free throw as precedent.

Think there used to be a similar case play for a throw-in after a made basket that if the new offensive team doesnt get out of bounds properly to make the throw in and its apparent they cannot make the proper throw-in.

Slight difference in that the play involved a situation where the throw in team just skipped the proper throw in.

Right.

9.2.1B

Note that NCAAW (at least) is different. Readminister the throw-in. AR 165.

I prefer the FED case.

In NCAAW, could a player do this intentionally to avoid a five-second count?

So, would this be legal:

Spot throw-in:

Inbounder dribbles the ball off his leg, it rolls down the sideline out of bounds 5-10 feet ish where a spectator tosses it back to him. He inbounds it. As long as this is accomplished before the 5 seconds count, and he doesn't leave the spot, is this legal?

ha, I was just about to ask that too. I'm thinking violation. that would be interesting.
Also, I suppose this not a violation? Player makes a bounce pass, so it hits out of bounds(in front of the passer) first then inbounds.

When the spectator interferes in the middle of the throw-in the play should be whistled dead and the throw-in readministered.

Wrong on both counts. Now please return to your JV girls game in which players will be awarded FTs when fouled after the act of shooting has ended.

Nevada:

Would you agree that the above play in red is really no different that if A1's inbounds pass to A2 was a bounce pass that after leaving A1's hands touched out-of-bounds before crossing through the boundary line plane and therefore is a throw-in violation by A1?

MTD, Sr.

Fumbles The Throwin ...
 

9.2.1 SITUATION B: A1, out of bounds for a designated spot throw-in: (a)
muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b) after receiving the ball
from the official, fumbles the ball and leaves the designated spot to retrieve the
fumble. RULING: In (a), the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations
and then start the throw-in procedure again. No throw-in violation should
be called in this situation. In (b), a throw-in violation shall be called on A1 for
leaving the designated spot.

Nice citation, but this play doesn't tell us what to do if he doesn't leave the designated spot?

Continue doing what you were doing, which was counting to 5.

Obviously, by stating that we call a violation for A1 leaving the spot, there is a time between the fumble and violation that we are not supposed to anything but continue counting.

A lot better question to advance the conversation would be, "can Team A call a time-out after the fumble?"

No, one is a pass and the other is a fumble. One is a deliberate act while the other is unintentional.

Edit: Made my own thread.

I would grant the TO. I'm not aware of any rule/case that suggests we wouldn't because the thrower is not holding the ball. As I understand it, player control does not exist during a throw in -- just team control. So the rules for a TO with a live ball and the clock running can't apply.

i was asking myself that also. you can grant a timeout when the ball is "at disposal" of a player OR in control of a player. "at disposal" occurs when you bounce or hand him the ball. or place it at spot on resumption of play or after a goal when it is available AND you start counting. it doesn't require possession of the ball. i would allow the timeout if ball rolls away. we know in reality that the player will likely chase after it as soon as he loses it but i think he should get the TO if he knew to ask for it without leaving the designated spot.

We've danced around this one for a while but the ruling is not clear in the thread. I'm curious because it happened to me in a camp game two summers ago; I wasn't sure, but none of the clinicians brought it up.

A1's throw-in bounce pass was roughly parallel to the sideline and bounced out of bounds before A2 grabbed it downstream on the inbounds side of the plane. Honestly, I ruled violation because it didn't "look" right. I later checked the rulebook and I think I was right because the throw-in wasn't released "directly" into the court. But does this "directly" clause infer that the ball cannot touch out of bounds on the way in? I'm not sure. Or is there a different interpretation that I'm not considering?

Yes, that's what "directly" means in this case.

The ruling should be clear -- it's a violation if the throw-in pass first hits out of bounds.

I do find it interesting that the ruling on the FT (immediate violation) is different from the ruling on a throw-in (wait until 5 or a violation). Many of the same options (specifically a TO) are, in theory, available to the team.

thinking out loud again--which is always dangerous… the free throw--immediate violation play, i think, cites for support, the provision where free thrower can't step into lane before ball hits rim. -- if you hand me the ball at free throw line i can dribble it in the lane obviously. if i fumble it and it bounces to the right of me, into the lane, BUT i can still reach it while inside the semicircle before anyone else touches it have i violated? as i said, i think, the immediate violation play cites the part of the rule where free thrower can't go into the lane before it hits rim. maybe that play assumes the fumble of the ball goes into the lane clearly out of my reach? violation when that happens.

whether i dribble or fumble--if I'm staying in my semicircle to get ball back i should be ok…?

on the throw in play it says player has the ball and then fumbles it and leaves the spot to retrieve it. violation for that clearly. we are talking about still counting to 5 if he stays in the designated spot. perhaps when the ball bounces far enough away that it clearly can't be retrieved by the thrower in with a foot over the designated spot a violation should be called? that would be a way to reconcile the two plays.
i havnt thought it through so there may be holes in that thought.

Player control
 

Player control absolutely exists on a throw-in. He/she is holding or dribbling a live ball, correct?

I agree:

2010-11 Basketball Rules Fundamentals, #2 says: "Neither a team nor any player is ever in control during a dead ball, jump ball, throw-in, or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal."

2012-13 Basketball Rules Fundamnetals, #2 and subsequent publications, omit the word "throw-in."

Note: I've misplaced my 2011-12 edition, so I can't verify if the change was made before 2012-13. Sorry.

quit being a crybaby Nevada just because I disagreed with you on another thread. No reason to bring that here.

I didn't see the spectator part in the question, I thought it was a violation if a player is dribbling and it goes off his leg.

So a bounce pass from a throwin inbounds would be illegal. A bounce pass to another teammate out of bounds, (play when you can run the endline) would be ok?

Is the second one a throw-in pass? That should answer your question (the specific words have specific meanings here).

And, not all "bounce passes" on throw-in passes are illegal.