max number of timeouts

[Chris Whitten]

Had a game recently that went into multiple OTs. With each OT each team got an "additional" timeout, and one team eventually was back at 5 available. A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable. I couldn't find anything in the book to back up his assertion. Anybody know where this can be found? Or was this a rule in days gone by?

[constable]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Had a game recently that went into multiple OTs. With each OT each team got an "additional" timeout, and one team eventually was back at 5 available. A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable. I couldn't find anything in the book to back up his assertion. Anybody know where this can be found? Or was this a rule in days gone by?

Without my book handy, I believe they get an additional TO plus all of their remaining timeouts. I can't recall seeing anything about a cap.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Had a game recently that went into multiple OTs. With each OT each team got an "additional" timeout, and one team eventually was back at 5 available. A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable. I couldn't find anything in the book to back up his assertion. Anybody know where this can be found? Or was this a rule in days gone by?

Something in the fragmented recesses of my mind I recall that each team had 5 timeouts max back in the late 70's. I'll let our Toledo area friend confirm/deny and document that since he'd probably be able to cite exact date of change. In the meantime, 5-11-1 says, "Unused timeouts accumulate." No mention of max accumulation being five. Never saw a team use more than two in any single overtime anyway, as I recall. A team can, in actuality, request and be granted an infinite number of timeouts, but the repeated technical foul shots following each excessive timeout granted might make for a late night.

All I know is they need to reduce the number of timeouts for 3rd grade girls games. I did one today (6 minute quarters) that took an hour and 10 minutes. Each coach called all five of their timeouts and the teams were notoriously slow getting out of timeouts needing a mid-court matchup each time and then the throw-in team ran the opposite direction of their throw-in and then had to be called back to their throw-in spot. The final score of this barn-burner? 10-8.

/rant

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All I know is they need to reduce the number of timeouts for 3rd grade girls games. I did one today (6 minute quarters) that took an hour and 10 minutes. Each coach called all five of their timeouts and the teams were notoriously slow getting out of timeouts needing a mid-court matchup each time and then the throw-in team ran the opposite direction of their throw-in and then had to be called back to their throw-in spot. The final score of this barn-burner? 10-8.

/rant

Intent with this response is not in order to "outdo" the poster, with whom I truly sympathize re. 1:10 min. games.
Paid my way through college doing those kinds of games, except back then we had real jump balls. 1:10 woulda been a very short game back then. Closer to 2:00 was quite common. Happy for A-P arrow!

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All I know is they need to reduce the number of timeouts for 3rd grade girls games. I did one today (6 minute quarters) that took an hour and 10 minutes. Each coach called all five of their timeouts and the teams were notoriously slow getting out of timeouts needing a mid-court matchup each time and then the throw-in team ran the opposite direction of their throw-in and then had to be called back to their throw-in spot. The final score of this barn-burner? 10-8.

/rant

I think that's par for the course at this level. I had a CYO JV Girls #3 game (4th graders with possibly a couple of third graders) this afternoon. The visiting coach thought she got 3 full and 1 partial time out per half until my partner and I corrected her.

For the first couple of timeouts, the teams were slow to come out. Thankfully, though, they got better as the game progressed. Our game went scoreless until there were 4 1/2 minutes left in the 4th quarter. The final score: 2-1.

Our game took about an hour; it might still be going if we called everything the officials in the stands wanted called.

To stay on topic, I've never been aware of any cap on timeouts since I first became involved with basketball in the mid-80s. In fact, I remember a CYO game from about 2004 (before I officiated) where the game went into double OT and the home coach had yet to call a timeout, leaving her with 7--5 fulls and 2 partials--to use at her discretion.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable.

Originally Posted by constable

I can't recall seeing anything about a cap.

Originally Posted by Freddy

Something in the fragmented recesses of my mind I recall that each team had 5 timeouts max back in the late 70's.

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

I've never been aware of any cap on timeouts since I first became involved with basketball in the mid-80s.

There's never been a cap, as far as I know, and I've been officiating since 1979.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. may know differently. He's been officiating since 1879.

Mark Padgett has been officiating as long as any of us, but he's never worked an overtime game in his life; never, ever; so he may not be of any help to this discussion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Something in the fragmented recesses of my mind I recall that each team had 5 timeouts max back in the late 70's. I'll let our Toledo area friend confirm/deny and document that since he'd probably be able to cite exact date of change. In the meantime, 5-11-1 says, "Unused timeouts accumulate." No mention of max accumulation being five. Never saw a team use more than two in any single overtime anyway, as I recall. A team can, in actuality, request and be granted an infinite number of timeouts, but the repeated technical foul shots following each excessive timeout granted might make for a late night.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There's never been a cap, as far as I know, and I've been officiating since 1979.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. may know differently. He's been officiating since 1879.

Mark Padgett has been officiating as long as any of us, but he's never worked an overtime game in his life; never, ever; so he may not be of any help to this discussion.

Providing quality basketball officiating since 1971, LOL!

In the Ancient Days, each team (boys'/girls' H.S. and men's/women's college) had five full time outs (60 seconds) during regulation. If the game went to overtime, each team had one full time out added to any unused timeouts at the start of each overtime period. Meaning that in a game that goes into overtime, a team could have more than five timeouts available for it to use once the game goes into overtime.

The provision added a full timeout at the start of each overtime period is still in the NFHS and NCAA Mens' & Womens' Rules.

And speaking of overtime games. 1) Two weeks ago I finally had my first charge of the season in a boys' 7th grade game that Junior and I were officiating. The home team had the ball and a one point lead with 44 seconds left in the game and ended up losing in OT. But I am pleased to announce that I have had a number of charges since than and I am not longer have withdrawal symptoms. And 2) last night (Sat., Dec. 20th), Junior and I had a boys' JV game go double OT, . The home team won and only had four players on the court for the last six seconds of the game. When we got into the dressing room, Junior that the game had gone triple OT, . It was a long night. LOL!

Time to go to bed now, I am having oral surgery tomorrow morning.

MTD, Sr.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Had a game recently that went into multiple OTs. With each OT each team got an "additional" timeout, and one team eventually was back at 5 available. A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable. I couldn't find anything in the book to back up his assertion. Anybody know where this can be found? Or was this a rule in days gone by?

Well this whole thing exemplifies the impact that lack of NFHS rules knowledge by even an esteemed senior ref has on perpetuating this myth. I'm glad we have this forum to dispel such myths.

Originally Posted by Freddy

Intent with this response is not in order to "outdo" the poster, with whom I truly sympathize re. 1:10 min. games.
Paid my way through college doing those kinds of games, except back then we had real jump balls. 1:10 woulda been a very short game back then. Closer to 2:00 was quite common. Happy for A-P arrow!

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

I think that's par for the course at this level. I had a CYO JV Girls #3 game (4th graders with possibly a couple of third graders) this afternoon. The visiting coach thought she got 3 full and 1 partial time out per half until my partner and I corrected her.

For the first couple of timeouts, the teams were slow to come out. Thankfully, though, they got better as the game progressed. Our game went scoreless until there were 4 1/2 minutes left in the 4th quarter. The final score: 2-1.

Our game took about an hour; it might still be going if we called everything the officials in the stands wanted called.

To stay on topic, I've never been aware of any cap on timeouts since I first became involved with basketball in the mid-80s. In fact, I remember a CYO game from about 2004 (before I officiated) where the game went into double OT and the home coach had yet to call a timeout, leaving her with 7--5 fulls and 2 partials--to use at her discretion.

I feel for you gentlemen. Additionally we only had a 3 minute halftime -- I did a boys Freshman game the other night that we completed in 57 minutes, including prayer, national anthem, lineups and a 10 minute halftime. In comparison this girls game was like pulling teeth. The score was tied with 2 minutes remaining -- we seemed destined for overtime and I had to will one of the teams to score. Had the same level girls game with different teams a few hours later and the game took 48 minutes. Go figure.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Chris Whitten

Had a game recently that went into multiple OTs. With each OT each team got an "additional" timeout, and one team eventually was back at 5 available. A senior official in our association who heard about our game said we need to be aware that 5 was the maximum allowable. I couldn't find anything in the book to back up his assertion. Anybody know where this can be found? Or was this a rule in days gone by?

There is no such rule, Chris.

[Nevadaref]

No such rule currently. This is where we really miss our friends such as Jurassic Ref.

Am I the only only one who occasionally cries after reading some posts for people such as Jurrasic and Mick even though I never met either one?

Both helped me immensly over the years.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am having oral surgery tomorrow morning.

I hope that the surgery is to permanently sew your mouth shut. Is there any way that the doctor can sew your fingers together so that you can't use a keyboard?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is where we really miss our friends such as Jurassic Ref.

Funny. I was thinking the exact same thing. He would have put this myth to rest with a few "choice" words.

[Mark Padgett]

Our local kids rec league allows 3 full and 2 thirty second timeouts per game. They do not carry over into OTs (not that it ever mattered to me ). If there is an OT, each team gets 1 full for the OT, which is 2 minutes.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No such rule currently. This is where we really miss our friends such as Jurassic Ref.

Am I the only only one who occasionally cries after reading some posts for people such as Jurrasic and Mick even though I never met either one?

Both helped me immensly over the years.

Why would a "few choice words" help answer someone's question?

While I miss those guys myself, a kick in the ass here isn't really called for. It's a question that was asked and answered. The OP looked through the books, after all.