Coach refuses to shake hands
 

What would you do if a coach shook hands with opposing captain and coach, but refused to shake your hand in the coaches/captains meeting before tip-off? I was involved in a previous game that did not end well for him.

Ignore it. Work the game as you would any other.

Be the bigger man.

Well, for that game, that's one HC who's not get any questions answered nor allowed any leeway if he steps outside the box and makes any type of comments.

Sportsmanship
 

I guess he can't truthfully answer the "we can expect good sportsmanship from everyone" question.

Unfriend Him On Facebook ...
 

Agree 100%.

Tell him I refuse to answer any questions because of his display when he is asking a question and move on. Then see how all that works out for him.

Peace

I may not explicitly say this to the coach, but that would end my communication for the game. And the rope would be really, really short.

No change
 

Do nothing different. If he wants to hold a grudge over a basketball game and behave immaturely then its on him. I'll call the game the same either way. Be professional, answer questions, make calls, and interact with him and his team just like you would if you had never met before. I also use this same philosophy when I have a coach or team that is "rumored" to be difficult. I may be more aware but I won't go in looking for problems.

You can be professional and tell a coach "what's up." They just decided to do something much earlier. I would not disrespect a coach, but he certainly would know why I feel the way I do. He would have to apologize, but I would not just not talk to a coach and he not know why. That is the ultimate disrespect to refuse to shake someone's hand and do so publicly. If this was any other profession, I would stop doing business with them or report it to them to the higher ups. I just have to deal with them for at most a couple of hours and then I go home. Coaches need to know their behavior has consequences.

Peace

Consequences ...
 

Good idea. Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, the procedure would be to report the situation to our assigner, who would contact the school's athletic director.

I would do nothing at the time, but keep it in the back of my head that he may become problematic.

The game started with a clean slate. The coach decided to be a prick, and it doesn't matter to me whether he did it at the coach's meeting or after the first foul call against his team. His actions for this game have determined the level of courtesy he will be given, which is pretty much nil. Obviously, it isn't going to affect how I'm going to call the game; but he's made it clear he isn't going to work with me if I need help dealing with a player or his bench. That's fine, I can go straight to the tools provided in the book.

Is this what officiating is about? Being vindictive. Work the game like any other and keep your emotions aside. We have to be bigger then that. Report and move on.

It's not vindictive. A coach decided he didn't wish to have a professional relationship. That's OK, but that just means I won't go out of my way to communicate with him.

Actually, I would be surprised at such behavior. Never had a coach act this way before a game.

I've had it happen a couple of times, although it was either a) youth wreck ball (back when I used to work youth wreck ball) or b) a JV game. Never happened at the varsity level.

Of course, in the case of the JV game, that coach had been served T in the two prior games I'd worked for his team (once by me, once by my partner). In the 3rd game, he opened the pregame conference with "Oh, it's you again" in a tone that basically said "I'm gonna get a T in this game also". And he did not disappoint. He also did not return as coach the following season.

That handshake is part of this game. The coach has demonstrated he doesn't want to interact with us. There are many things a coach can do to cause interaction to cease, this is but one of them.

BNR and johnny d, what would you do in a college game?

On a related note, my household has been a cesspool for disease this season so whenever either of my daughters is sick with something I will do an elbow bump, a smile, and lightheartedly say something to the effect of "Trust me, with my household you wouldn't want to shake my hand."

Point being, there may be another reason why a coach may not have shaken your hand. However, I would hope that if they did have a reason that they would try and let you know why as briefly as possible.

Basically you have been disrespectful, so I do not have to show you any courtesy. Talking to any coach is a courtesy. No where is it a requirement or honestly part of a requirement in officiating. Why would any of us want to talk to a guy/gal that cannot shake our hands in a ceremonial fashion that does not even show that you like or respect us in the first place? And it a person cannot shake our hands, they do not need me to say anything to them as that will be seen as another issue when I speak to them. If you wish to talk, that is on you. I have told coaches in the past when they have been disrespectful, "I am not talking you anymore." They need me much more than I need them. They need to know that sometimes.

Peace

Coaches are disrespectful to officials all the time. Does that mean we lower ourselves to their level.

How am I lowering myself by telling him/her where they have crossed the line? I am not yelling at them. I am not calling them names. I am telling them what there behavior has now done to our actions towards them and now you will have to pay the consequences. First of all we do this all day anyway. Unless you are someone that does not talk to coaches ever, when participants have crossed the line, we often let a coach know that either with a T or our words. I have not lowered myself to be straight with a coach. Because if I do not tell him, he is going to go around telling the story the way he chooses anyway. I have not said anything to certain coaches only for them to assume I was mad at them and half the time I am just officiating and minding my own business. If a coach wants to show disrespectful behavior, I have the right to let him know why I felt he was disrespectful. I have seen too many videos of coaches or players getting T'd up and what do they day, "I did not do anything." So why keep them in the dark and treat them like their behavior is acceptable and we are the problem? Maybe, just maybe they will realize their behavior and apologize for being disrespectful, which I would accept if it was honest and sincere. I have had coaches apologize many times when they realize when they are wrong and when they have crossed a line. And only does that happen when it is brought to their attention by someone, whether it is me or an observer.

If that is not how you roll, then so be it. I am good telling coaches what is up and have the "juice" to be supported by telling them what is up. And that is not going to change how I call the game or if they get a foul or not or call a violation or not. I have told coaches to "knock it off" only to have them assume I made a call against them. I have been around long enough not to care what they ultimately think.

Peace

I also have been around long enough to not care what they ultimately think. So why do you care if they shake your hand or not. I have worked into a very good working relationship with most coaches and players throughout the years and a lot of that is by earning their respect. Not by doing what I please on the court or field, but by doing what is best for the game. We agree to disagree.

This situation would never happen in a college game. I don't think it would even happen in a Juco game. For most coaches at the college level, coaching is how they make their living. They are too professional to pull a stunt like this, and if they are not, they would not have risen to the point of being a college head coach. If however, it ever did happen to me in a college game, I would treat him and the game exactly how I treat every other game I officiate. I would answer his legitimate questions, ignore his statements, and give him the same latitude I give every other coach. Afterwards, I would report the incident to the assignor and allow him to handle the situation from there.

Great answer! +2

What's best for the game sometimes is shutting down communication with a coach.

Disagree

I think unprofessional behavior needs to be addressed. If you wish to not say anything I am fine with that fact. Just like you are not looking for my approval, I am certainly not looking for your approval off this situation. But I am going to likely say something at some point. We all do not do the same things anyway. We are not robots. We are individuals and there is a reason some individuals get to certain levels and others never get a shot. And even out of those individuals that are successful, you will hear a lot of different approaches with the same ultimate results. Just look at a guy like Jim Burr and Tim Higgins. Two totally different approaches but similar overall officiating success.

And I do not care to work with coaches. They are there to coach, not to tell me how to do my job. If they do not understand that fact, I will let them know. My goal is to call the game the right way that is asked of us by rules and philosophy, not to please a coach. Again, they need me much more than I need them. I will be onto the next game very soon and not have them the rest of the season. And if I have them later, they know where I stand. There is a reason in most cases when I have a coach one time, I do not have to deal with their crap the next time. ;)

Peace

Wouldn't happen...remote chance it did they would also get no conversation for that game.

College coaches don't have time for that Harry high school crap.

I respect your thoughts as I always have on this forum.

And the feeling is mutual. I think we have to do what makes us comfortable. Your way is not wrong, it is just right for you. It is just not my way to handle things, that is all.

Peace

Funny cuz I saw this same thing happen last year at a D3 game. Coach was pissed off about something and hung out at the far end of the bench and kinda waved when the refs went to shake the coaches hands. It was pretty clear he was staying away from the refs. He ended being a PITA during the game.

I would not take that as refusing to shake my hand, his wave is at least acknowledging our presence.

Meh. Right or wrong I'm not obligated to converse with him. He's not getting any conversation with me.

I guess this just goes to show that anything is possible at any level. I personally have never had this happen to me or seen this happen, nor have I ever heard of a college coach (or HS coach for that matter) pulling this kind of stunt from any official or assignor. I work in some leagues that are notorious for having coaches who can be PITAs, but I would be shocked if any of them even considered something as sophomoric as this. Like I said earlier though, the expectations at even lower level colleges are much higher, so I would be surprised if the coach at that D3 school is around for long.

Exactly, I'm not bringing in previous game experience or negative interaction with this coach. He just started this game with a big fat "Eff You." Would be no different than if, in the course of the game, I needed to ask him a question and he responded by turning his back.

Responding to that behavior doesn't require being vindictive. He's just told you he doesn't want to deal with you. How does that play itself out?

Well, now I know that I can't count on him to help me with his players if they start going off the rails with sportsmanship. I'll deal with it myself, and that means I'm much more likely to need to use a technical foul.

I know I can't count on him to be reasonable if I need to remind him to get back into the coaching box.

I know that if a player fouls out, I'm just going to let him know and have timer start immediately rather than wait to see if he hesitates with the sub.

I know that if his bench is acting up, he's not going to be much help in dealing with them, so I'll use the tools I have.

I know that if he's asking stupid questions, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt as to intent. The questions he'll get answered will be along the lines of "where's the throw in going to be".

He'll get my polite responses, but they'll be completely professional, short, and to the point. If he wants to be a jack-ass, I'm not going to get in his way.

I had a coach last year tell me after he was in my ear every time about calls, "Ref will you leave me alone."

I said "OK."

Then the very next trip on the court he started asking me a question about a call and my response was without missing a beat, "Didn't you tell me to leave you alone, you need to leave me alone." I then ignored him the rest of the game and he did not talk to me.

BTW this was a coach that was replacing the normal head coach and he was not used to officials at a certain experience level while acting as a head coach. His behavior reflected this.

Peace

FWIW,

I am not treating him any differently than the other coach. I don't take any of this personally even if others may. We are all human, but if I am going to sell my integrity it will be for a HELL of a lot more than a basketball game (at any level). I guess in these situations you will find the left and right limits of your .

It should never happen in a college game (or any game). Had it happen to my crew in a D-II game a few years back. Home Coach shook hands with me and one partner, but turned his back to walk away from our 3rd who he was mad at for something that happened earlier in the season.

I simply said "Coach, are you sure that this is the way you want to start things out tonight? You disrespect one of our crew, you disrespect us all."

He said "Fine with me."

He got very little conversation from any of us...gave us all 1's on the rating sheet (lowest he could give) and said we wouldn't communicate with him. My game report explained why...supervisor forwarded that report to AD and Conference Commissioner and he was reprimanded.

No one said anyone is taking it personally. Calling out the integrity of those who disagree with you is absurd.

The coach makes it clear he doesn't want to communicate, and you think it's a lack of integrity to oblige?

Did someone make it clear that they were going to call a game differently based off of a coach not speaking to them? Who said we had to speak to a coach to do our job? I have had coaches that shook hands, were very friendly only not to say a single word to an officials, other than what kind of timeout they wanted to use in a game. I am not getting this "integrity" BS you and others keep trying to elaborate on.

Heck I can decide I am not going to talk to a coach during a game when they have shown they are unreasonable. This just happens to be before the game and a situation that most of us have never seen. I have yet to see a coach act that childish. I have seen coaches not look pleased with a person before the game and usually it is reflected later in their comments. So if a coach is immature to do this, I have the right to make his wish come true.

Peace

I've never had it happen to me directly, of course by the same token at the level I work, I could care less if coaches and captains shake my hand or not. It's appreciated if they do, but if they don't, it's moreso because neither one of us took the first step to offer our hand. At the non-varsity level, it seems most officials could care less about having the pregame meeting with coaches and captains, and vice versa. It is what it is.

Now, I'm with the majority of those on the forum. If the coach wants to act like a dipwad during the game, he'll be treated as such. I give one chance for the coach to correct his or her behavior and that's it. I am usually inclinced to serve up tea before I cut off communications with a coach however. I can only think of 1 time where I was "done" with a coach. 1st half of a tough BJV game, I made a call and I could tell the coach was curious why I called what I did. He didn't ask me directly, but I could tell by his body language he wanted an explanation. When I started to give him one, he apparently didn't like it, because he told me that he didn't want to hear anything else I had to say tonight.

Second half, he decides now he is ready to ask me about some calls during the game. My response was probably longer than it needed to be, but in no certain words, I told him that if he didn't want me talking to him in the first half, then I wasn't going to talk to him in the second half either, and that if he had any questions for me, that he could communicate with me through my partner, but that was it. Message delivered and received, on my way out after the game he stopped me and apologized for his actions in the first half. I told him that I understand how coaches work and that I'm more than willing to communicate with him, but when you tell me during a game that you're done with me, then you can't go back on it, that it applies for the rest of the game.

All ended well in this situation as he got the answers he was looking for and we left peacefully. I've had him several times since and we've developed a good rapport with each other. Sometimes you have to be firm but fair to a coach to get your message across. If the coach knows what he's doing, he'll receive the message. If he doesn't, he probably won't be coaching long.

No, it does not. But we DO address it when they are. This particular circumstance is no different.

What does integrity have to do with this?

Some folks are too concerned with having cozy relationships with coaches. My mechanics, signals, and voice communicate all the information a coach needs. If he wants more than that then his behavior needs to indicate such.

Exactly how I would handle it, and I would hope my conference admins would show me and my crew the same support.

As you know and in college most of the time the Referee has to fill out a game report so that would go into the report for sure.

But if this took place at the high school level, we have what we call a "Special Report" form which would be anything that needed to be addressed in sportsmanship areas. This form is filled out online and it would go to the AD, Principal and Superintendent I believe. So it would be addressed by the offending party why this took place and how it would be corrected in the future. As officials we would not know what the end result is of that communication with the IHSA and school administration. And this document would go into the file of that coach and could be used like any other such "write-up" on an individual that is doing a job of any kind.

Peace

I made a general statment that wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Why you and Adam took such offense to an opinion, which I am entitled to is beyond me. However, the highlighted words are yours not mine.

I had to go back and reread what I wrote that made you think I took offense to your opinion. Your opinion that I took exception to (I wasn't offended) is below:

1. You think others are taking this sort of thing personally. I disagree. One doesn't have to take it personal to deal with unsporting or childish behavior from a coach.

2. You implicitly accuse others of selling their integrity. I simply find that insinuation to be absurd.

Ignore the act of unprofessionalism. Then if it is a HS coach, report him to the appropriate Interscholastic board or utilize proper reporting procedures. Coaches are role models to the student athletes and sportsmanship is paramount in all interscholastic sports (or at least they will all say so).

Agree to disagree,

However, the mere fact my general comment garnered this much attention implies some may be putting way more thought into one simple act than needed. I said I wouldn't sell my integrity over this. I also said I wouldn’t take it personally. Some of the opposing comments seemed to take it personal. There are about a dozen or so who seem to respond to the majority of the post on this site. Many times when someone else disagrees, or is in the minority on an issue the piling on ensues. Previous posts over the years you seem to be a very passionate and competent official. If I may not offer an open opinion without offending you in some way maybe you have lost your perspective and objectivity.

Who said anything about taking it personally? I am just commenting on the situation. It is my opinion. If you wish to do something different than that is OK. Often I do not care what others do anyway because there is more than one way to skin a cat. If what you are doing works for you, that is OK with me.

I feel we have the right to tell coaches the truth. And if he did not shake my hand, he would know why I am not talking to him after that fact. He will learn one way or the other.

Peace

What did I say that implies I was offended? Can I not disagree with your opinion without you thinking I'm offended by it?
I think the idea that those who would address his disrespect are somehow selling out their integrity is absurd, but I'm not offended by it?

As for taking it personal, this thread was dead for two weeks before you resurrected it. That's why I had to go back and read what I wrote.

[QUOTE=JRutledge;948135]Often I do not care what others do anyway because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Please don't skin the cat...😸

HE can if he answers no.:D

We were recently instructed to handle pre-game stuff differently in one league, apparently due to at least one coach not wanting his/her players to shake hands with the opposing coach.

In any other league we, the officials, will stand in front of the table while players are being announced. Once announced players come out, shakes hands or whatever with their teammates, go over and shake the hand of the opposing coach, then shake hands/fist bump with us officials.

Now, in that one league, players no longer shake hands with the opposing coach nor us after being announced.

The reason for this change was apparently because that one coach didn't want him/her or his/her players to be seen as unsportsmanlike. I don't get it.

Meh, I wouldn't notice either way. There's no need for that pomp and circumstance anyway. Whether the coach has fostered sportsmanship isn't going to change with this pregame ceremony.

Stay above the coach who chooses to be a jerk. Avoid letting him know that he has affected you in any way. It may be tough but be professional and businesslike in the way you handle yourself and work the best game you can work.

Pregame handshakes are not allowed here. I'm happy for that.

Two schools of thought.

This is one.

Sportmanship ???
 

Seems kind of contrived, and corny. It started with girls teams about fifteen years ago, and now includes teams of both genders, almost universal.

Fist bump, and a quick, "Have fun". Harmless, but contrived, and corny. I would prefer for it to go away, but I'm not going to lobby against it.

Guess we were ahead of our time when I grew up (more than 15 years ago).

What is with the expectation that some folks have that coaches can act like d*bags and we are just to let it slide? Where else on this planet can someone be a jack-a** and not get called out?

I wouldn't communicate with this coach, I wouldn't give him any courtesy. The only time I will talk with him is when I am required. "Coach #5 has fouled out" or "Coach you have lost your coaching box for the rest of the game"

I have no interest in being the "bigger" man. I just do my best to be a regular man who wants to be treated the way I would treat others.

No, It's Not Howie Mandel ...
 

We have more than just one official who carry hand sanitizer in their jacket pockets, use it, and offer it to their partners, especially during influenza season. Seems a little over the top for me, but "an ounce of prevention ..."

(During influenza season, our pastor encourages us to dispense with handshakes during the sign of peace portion of the mass. Most parishioners continue to shake hands, a few just give a friendly wave. The priest, and the extraordinary ministers, use hand sanitizer, available on the alter, before distributing Holy Communion. And we do have hand sanitizer available at the church exits, right next to the holy water.)

I do have an interest in being the bigger man, but that has nothing to do with this scenario. Communicating with coaches is a two-way street, and when the coach decides to shut down his side before the game has even started, I'll be happy to comply.

It's no different than if he had asked for an explanation of a call and proceeded to turn his back as I explained. I'm not going to waste my time trying to make this better.