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The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Apparel questions. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98788-apparel-questions.html)

BillyMac Sun Dec 07, 2014 02:52pm
Patience Is A Virtue ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 945951)
+1
Thanks Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I was sure that it would be deleted by the moderators, but I guess that they're a little more lenient on lazy Sundays.

Actually, they've been very patient with me lately. Did becoming an esteemed member really come with some clout? Do they know something about me that I don't? Do I have only two weeks to live? Am I dying?

In any case, they're doing a good job. That's why they get paid the big internet bucks. I've been forwarding my Forum dues to Mark Padgett, as he instructed, and I'm sure that he's passing on the cash to the moderators.

just another ref Sun Dec 07, 2014 02:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 945952)
I was sure that it would be deleted by the moderators, but I guess that they're a little more lenient on lazy Sundays.
Why would you post something if you were sure it would be deleted?

BillyMac Sun Dec 07, 2014 03:15pm
Hee Haw ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 945953)
Why would you post something if you were sure it would be deleted?
Because I was hoping that it wouldn't be deleted. There's nothing like a little bit of corny humor on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

OKREF Sun Dec 07, 2014 03:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945942)
The part in which I believe causing some ambiguity is in rule 3-5-3a that states "anything that is worn on the arm and/or leg us a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions."

The rule says "anything." No where in there does it say except if attached to an undershirt. No where does it say that the undershirt rule takes priority over this rule. That is why I say it isn't clear cut.

Even in the undershirt rule is uses the word sleeves to define sleeves on a shirt. Also per the definition of sleeves as being anything worn on the arm. I feel it is reasonable that some could conclude that if a player had a blue undershirt with long blue sleeves on that all other players sleeves must match.
You're making this way harder than it is. The "anything worn on the arm is a sleeve" deals only with the Allan Iverson shooting sleeves, and the compression sleeves that have the elbow pad in them. An undershirt with sleeves simply means a long sleeve shirt. It isn't hard to understand.

jeremy341a Sun Dec 07, 2014 03:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 945957)
You're making this way harder than it is. The "anything worn on the arm is a sleeve" deals only with the Allan Iverson shooting sleeves, and the compression sleeves that have the elbow pad in them. An undershirt with sleeves simply means a long sleeve shirt. It isn't hard to understand.
Nice tone Guess the word anything means only somethings.

Camron Rust Sun Dec 07, 2014 04:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945959)
Nice tone Guess the word anything means only somethings.
Shirts are not worn on the arm. They are worn on the body with parts that extend down the arms.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 07, 2014 04:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945959)
Nice tone Guess the word anything means only somethings.
Rules need to be read in context. Not taken in isolation. And, yes, there are instances where the rules could be worded better. COntinuing to argue / discuss it it pointless.

jeremy341a Sun Dec 07, 2014 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 945966)
Rules need to be read in context. Not taken in isolation. And, yes, there are instances where the rules could be worded better. COntinuing to argue / discuss it it pointless.
I agree and I completely see the other side as well.
Why do you think there is a rule that they all need to match? Is it really likely someone would pass to an opponent bc of the color of their sleeve. I feel that is unlikely. I was only shocked that no one could think that they wasn't all sleeves to match no matter whether they are attached to an undershirt or not.

jeremy341a Sun Dec 07, 2014 04:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 945964)
Shirts are not worn on the arm. They are worn on the body with parts that extend down the arms.
What are the parts that extend down the arms called if not sleeves?

Nevadaref Sun Dec 07, 2014 05:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945968)
What are the parts that extend down the arms called if not sleeves?
Do you think that a wrist band is a sleeve because it is worn on the arm? What colors are permissible for wrist bands? Do they have to match sleeves?

There is an NFHS Case Book play that provides these answers for you.

BillyMac Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:09pm
Blast From The Past ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 945957)
Allan Iverson shooting sleeves ...An undershirt .
Love the Allan Iverson reference. Also, it's Patrick Ewing undershirts.

BillyMac Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:17pm
A1 Fouls A2 ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945967)
Why do you think there is a rule that they all need to match? Is it really likely someone would pass to an opponent bc of the color of their sleeve. I feel that is unlikely..
Disagree. During scrimmages, where we take a pass on many Fashion Police rules (for same reason, Connecticut teams almost never wear uniforms for scrimmages, they usually wear reversible vests that they probably wear at practice), I have had difficulty identifying teammates, and opponents, on rebounding fouls when a player wearing a blue jersey, with a white undershirt, is contesting a rebound with a player with a white jersey. It's lot easier when they are wearing legal colors. A lot easier.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 945967)
Is it really likely someone would pass to an opponent bc of the color of their sleeve. .
Yes, if the color was only seen with the peripheral vision. See Georgetown v. North Carolina, 1982 (maybe?)

BryanV21 Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:27pm
What about the fact that players rarely wear two arm sleeves (the Allen Iverson type)? They're normally only worn on one arm.

I'm for making all non-uniform apparel fall under the same color rule. I don't think a player has to wear an undershirt, arm sleeve, compression shorts, tights, etc. So if they don't want to spend the money to have more than one color of them, to be legal, then that's on them.

Raymond Sun Dec 07, 2014 07:49pm
A basketball official needs to know the terminology of basketball rules.We are not fans or coaches or players; we should have a basic understanding above what the general public has.


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