Illegal Screen? (video)
 

Would like to hear some opinions on this video.

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54 white turns in to go to hole and delivers a blow. good call.

Why hadn't lead rotated over on this one? No reason to have that call made as C.

Good call.

Coach might get stuck for that little antic, depending....

I've heard some suggest that the L doesn't need to come over until the ball gets lower (below the FT line) if there is no post action on that side.

Either way, the right call was made by the right person from approximately the right location regardless of whether they were T or C.

it could be brighter, and zoomed in more on the action.

Really hard to tell.
 

I am not seeing a foul. Now maybe that is because of the angle or the darkness it is hard to distinguish the background from the players on the court, but I do not see a foul here. I see a bigger player running into a wall. Now if the arms extended, I have a foul. But it does not look that way based on the quality of the video.

Peace

The L isn't in the shot when the call gets made... it's possible that either the L had rotated but the C hadn't had a chance to recognize that fact and move to T yet (plausible... there's a lot of action happening in C's area when as soon as the ball gets to the frontcourt)
OR
(and I hope this isn't the case) the T was slow getting to the frontcourt from the backcourt, so the L couldn't rotate yet.

Jeff:

I agree. This was a legal screen. It looked bad to the fans and coaches who are not versed in the rules of the game because the defender was small and bounced off the screener like a rubber ball thrown against a brick wall. But I believe the screener was penalized for being much bigger than the screenee.

MTD, Sr.

I saw the screener rotate her shoulder into the defender. It's not as though she stood still and the defender ran into her.

I know that we have the benefit of slow play in this video, but W-54 did not pivot until after the defender made contact and once bouncing off of her.

This was a tough play but I am inclined to give the Screener the benefit of the doubt in this play.

MTD, Sr.

Illegal Screen ...
 

Agree, but I had to watch the video twice to be sure.

Mark, i thought the shoulder rotated in on the first view and i still think it now. not really dealing with the pivot. her top half turns and delivers a blow. just have to agree to disagree on this one.

And posted by the real OP. :)

Agreed. If we're not sure, don't call anything and I'm with JRut and MTDS. The screener didn't create the contact.

I have a foul.

I would like to add one other observation before going back to bed. Notice which foot W-54 is her pivot foot. It is her left foot. Her pivot has her opening or pivoting away from her teammate who is being guarded by the screenee. W-54, during her pivot, has not left her original spot on the court.

I would also like to add that I hope W-54 sent her check to Bill Lambeer for teaching her how to set a pick, :p.

MTD, Sr.

The footwork was not the illegal part. Yes, her right foot went back. But, from where I'm sitting, her left shoulder went forward.

There's a halfcourt trap developing. The L should get across so the C can officiate this as the T.

Frankly, it looks bad, but the quality of video is lacking.

You can tell the L hadn't rotated by the where the L eventually enters the frame....from an angle not on the same side as the foul.

It just tells me the L isn't actively looking to rotate to get the crew in the best possible configuration. Why work 3-person if you're going to have only one official ballside?

Wouldn't matter. Even if the Lead is coming across I don't see a good Center official bailing out from FTLE before this play develops. The Lead should probably be going across when he sees the play come down C's side, but C should be able to referee a 1 on 1 matchup with a screener pretty easily.

I am not trying to sound snarky but of course her entire body rotated around her left foot.

On the other hand, I think the better argument for a possible foul on W-54, is that by stepping toward the basket as she pivoted she changed direction and did not give the defender Time and Distance, but I personally think that is a stretch because the contact is simultaneous with W-54 starting her pivot.

MTD, Sr.

Turned and got burned...
 

Everything about the screen was legal (insert dramatic pause hear) until she turned and moved to the basket before contact was made (ok, maybe at exactly the same time but too close to call). Essentially it looks as if she gave up her LGP and hit the defender with her shoulder instead of waiting for the defender to come all the way into her with the contact.

I could be convinced this was a 50/50 call and understand 100% why the ref called.the way he did.

On a side note, I am seeing a lot more players bailing early on charges/screens as if there afraid to take the contact. This results in either a baby flop with minimal contact or a foul on that player. Perhaps kids just aren't tough enough any more to stand in there and take one for the team.

I disagree. As C, I'm moving up a bit higher to get a better look at this. I think he got the right call, but he seems to be straight lined on the play.

Yes, I'm picking nits, but that's what we do.

Sounds good to me.

But I'm still listening for that dramatic pause. ;)

Excellent call. She just about decapitates the defender as she turns the shoulder into her.

I am the King of Hyperbole and I wouldn't go that far.

MTD, Sr.

I've got a foul on W54.

She was not stationary at the time of contact, and while the video quality is poor, looking carefully you can see her left shoulder moving towards the defender immediately prior to contact. Further, even though she initially pivoted on her left foot, almost immediately with the contact she stepped forward with her left foot into the defender and you can see her using her left arm to push the defender to the floor. If the initial contact wasn't a foul, what immediately followed certainly was.

Good call IMHO.

Good call.

The Trail is extremely slow getting across the division line. The Lead was probably enjoying the view and forgot the he needs to rotate.

Could, should, would. Nonsense. You have an official looking at a screen AND a ball-handler and defender. So the two most important things are being looked at by one official while the other two do what? Lolligag, that's what.

This is the argument I expect to hear from coaches and athletic directors who think 3-person is a waste of $60, not from a thinking official.

You move to get the best look between the players. The best move here is a step or two UP, which you can't make when there's no L in position. The C holds his position when the L rotates over when it's the right thing to do, not 100% of the time. It's not bailing, it's using feet to improve the look, as Adam said.

Right. And I'm not waiting for the T to cross the division line. I'm going. The T can run right to the C position - he doesn't even need to stop.

decapitation! :)

the video was a bit clearer if you click on it and go to the youtube site. Harder to see it here. foul when she turned her shoulder and made contact.