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-   -   Pay debate (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98658-pay-debate.html)

zm1283 Wed Nov 19, 2014 09:42am

We are still 2-person for the large majority of our games around here, and we almost always work JV/V doubleheaders. Some schools even play three games a night on occasion and we send two people to work those. I think we would send three and split it up but we don't have enough people on most nights.

I would love to have every JV/V night be 3-person but the schools around here won't go for it yet, and I don't think we have enough officials anyway.

Freddy Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 944044)
All Varsity is 3 person in my state, excepting the urban school here and there who want to save a little bit of money on their girls shitfests.

Profanities aside, this seems to be an obvious Title IX issue which will cost somebody a lot of money when the barristers come a callin'.

Raymond Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:46pm

I do not believe Title IX covers officiating contracts.

johnny d Wed Nov 19, 2014 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 944106)
I do not believe Title IX covers officiting contracts.

Years ago, when conferences started going 3 man for boys basketball around here, one of the hang ups preventing everybody from doing it was that the schools did not want or feel the need to use 3 officials on girls basketball, but they were all afraid that if they didn't, they would get sued under title IX. Unfortunately title IX has far reaching implications. I have seen schools have to put lights up on their softball fields because they had them on the baseball field and were sued under title IX. I have seen D3 college conferences change their schedule because of title IX lawsuits. In the past, whenever there were women's/men's double headers, the women's game was always the early game, now some of the conferences around here alternate by game or year because a parent sued on conference under title IX and won.

JRutledge Wed Nov 19, 2014 02:16pm

It may not be specific with officiating contracts, but I believe if you do not provide the girl's with the best opportunity, you can be seen as not compliant and at the very least deal with a lawsuit to settle the issue. And most places are afraid of the lawsuit, not just the result. And if you do not pay officials the same, it might be seen as not getting the best officials to work their games. I am not so sure I agree and feel like sports like softball should not pay the same as baseball for instance, but the Title IX fear is what prevents that even being tried.

Peace

Raymond Wed Nov 19, 2014 03:52pm

For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

Camron Rust Wed Nov 19, 2014 04:42pm

As long as the two sides (boys/girls) are provided with the same budget, I don't think it would be a Title IX issue if they chose to spend their resources differently.

Terrapins Fan Thu Nov 20, 2014 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 944120)
For the longest time here, AAA BV was using 3 person while AAA GV only got 2 officials.

Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

just another ref Thu Nov 20, 2014 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 944170)
Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

JRutledge Thu Nov 20, 2014 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 944194)
I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

There likely isn't any, but if you have more people seeing things and calling things, it is hard to argue that more is better.

Peace

bob jenkins Thu Nov 20, 2014 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 944196)
There likely isn't any, but if you have more people seeing things and calling things, it is hard to argue that more is better.

Peace

only if "seeing" and "calling" are also preventative, which they rarely are -- they are punitive.

Doesn't mean, of course, that someone won't claim that the injury could have been prevented, and it will cost time and / or money to refute that claim.

Raymond Thu Nov 20, 2014 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 944170)
Until a girl gets hurt and the parent/coach says " Why didn't they have 3 officials on that game?"

It was that way for years. It changed when my local association self-imposed a pay cut across the board to finance a 3rd official for those games.

My point being, though, was there were never any conversations about Title IX being violated.

egj13 Thu Nov 20, 2014 03:29pm

In my neck of the woods we get...wait for it...$35 for JV and $45 for V. All three man crews, always a JV/V DH and travel is a flat rate regardless of how far you drive. My assoc covers a stretch of interstate 196 miles from point A to Z...and I happen to be in the middle...average drive for me is 60 miles one way and I get a flat rate. The state sets the high-limit that we can charge as an assoc so we don't have say in it. Good thing I don't do this for the money!

PG_Ref Thu Nov 20, 2014 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by egj13 (Post 944207)
In my neck of the woods we get...wait for it...$35 and $45 for V. All three man crews, always a JV/V DH and travel is a flat rate regardless of how far you drive. My assoc covers a stretch of interstate 196 miles from point A to Z...and I happen to be in the middle...average drive for me is 60 miles one way and I get a flat rate. The state sets the high-limit that we can charge as an assoc so we don't have say in it. Good thing I don't do this for the money!

WOW! This sounds like rec ball fees ...

Adam Thu Nov 20, 2014 04:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 944194)
I would like to see the definitive proof that a girl is less likely to get hurt with at third official.

Proof is not always required for change.


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