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Bad Partner
Would you strangle this guy after the game or would you just punch him in the face? haha Just a little preseason reminder to not be this guy. (apologies for the horrible announcers)
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I don't know what I would do, but one of our forum members can tell you what he actually did. ;)
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I've seen this a bunch of times and I still can't get enough of it!
All I can say is: *I give the Blue HC credit for not going absolutely bananas. *I don't even know if I would've bothered talking to my partner on the court. Maybe for a few seconds to find out why his head was up his a** then moved on. *There would have been NO talk in the locker after the game. I would've gotten dressed, got in my car and called my assignor. Quote:
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At that point in the game I wouldn't have said anything. I would inbound the ball and finish the game. Afterwards, like JMF, I wouldn't talk to the guy at all. I would get dressed and leave.
However, seeing that call, there had to be times during that game when the same thing happened. Assuming that, I would have sternly told him to stay in his primary unless I miss something big. And after the game, again like JMF, I'd call my assignor. |
People keep bringing up the nightmare for our fellow forum member.
Peace |
Really? The new trail is counting and he calls if from new lead? By my first count they way I would have counted in a game I got to four. You could see him trying to justify the call by making a sign that demonstrates when the ball was available but this is nonsense.
It appeared that the new trail sped up his count. It was a lot faster than the one he was doing previously. I am afraid in this game with two points, and a few seconds, knowing it was my call, my discussions would have been more animated than what I saw... I had a partner somewhat like this several years ago. I was in a sub varsity game and the Coach of the home team kept coming out on the floor arguing about calls, after being warned a couple of times, I finally whacked him. (This was the at the start of a time out) My partner who taught in a feeder middle school, walks up to me and tells me I can't make that call before I can report it. I tell her that he'd been warned and T stands. She tells me "I am the referee and I am overruling the call" I then tell her that she can't do it by rule and she tells me that she is still doing it". I told her to do whatever the h377 she wants. I The opposing coach asks me at the end of the time out if I had called a T and what was happening. I told yes I did but that she can explain it and walked back to my position as the Lead I had before the time out. Luckily we had only a couple of minutes left in the game. I never made eye contact with her the rest of the game. After the final buzzer left the floor and her standing out there as fast as I could get off. I never talked with her again and she never did apologize. Fortunately I believe that was her last season of officiating... |
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For the record, I put a stopwatch on the throw in and got to 4.25 as the absolute longest on end of the throw in. That guy is a serious train-wreck. |
This video is our forum's bad penny.
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We're taught so much about how to handle coaches and players but dealing with partners who may do something like this isn't mentioned quite as often. Most if not all of us have worked with that guy. Maybe not someone who does something as rockheaded as this - and something that's caught on camera, no less - but definitely close. Our forum member showed a surprising amount of restraint given the situation. I've been told I have the patience of a saint but I think when Dude came back to me at the 1:19 mark I probably don't even look at him. When he does it again at the 1:42 mark I probably give him a "stop" sign just to avoid the possibility of cursing him out. This is a great example of putting the job at hand above everything else for the sake of the kids, even if stupid gets in the way. |
That's awful. I wish we could tell what the discussion was between officials, but I think I would have:
1) Attempted to figure out what the call was (it looks like the lead did this) 2) Explain to my partner that it was my call, his call was incorrect, and that it needed to be reversed -- Pull in the coaches and explain --"The 5 second count was incorrectly started and as a result there was no violation -- it's Black ball for the throw-in" 3) If my partner refused to reverse, I'd tell him that his call is wrong but I'm not going to cause a scene arguing. I'd tell him that he needs to go administer the throw in himself. And of course I'd be calling the assignor after the game. |
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I know this video has been posted numerous times on here, but I would absolutely light him up in the locker room after the game. In fact he better hope it is 3-person because the third official might have to pull me off of him.
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He'd have one of two responses:
1. Dig in his heels and defend his call "for the good of the game." 2. Shrink and admit he was wrong. 1 is much more likely than 2. |
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I would have told the coach that my partner just came down from Canada to work the game and he counted the five seconds in metric. :p
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It would be interesting to hear his side of the story and catalogue in under the I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE IT file. 1. Why are you looking at the end line at all? 2. Even if you are looking there, why would you have a count going? 3. When do you think the count is supposed to start? |
I was under the impression he was going off of the game clock.
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I suspect her real reason was she was trying to gain favor since she worked in a feeder jr high just down the street. That's another ethical issue. |
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I'm thinking there's someone following this thread who could give intimate details of the evening's events.
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Sorry if this had been posted before, but I've been following this forum for a couple years and I've never seen it. If one of these guys is actually a forum member and could provide insight on this, that would just be amazing. I watch a bunch of officiating videos on youtube, but not too many make me say "What the xxxx" out loud. This one did.
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Peace |
For many of us, here, on the forum, this video was in the back of our mind during the recent thread that discussed when the ball is "at the disposal" of the team.
Early last season, in our area, we received a statement telling us that we needed to start the 5-second count when the ball was "at the disposal" of the probable thrower-in. And we were told not to wait until he/she had the ball in hand, out-of-bounds. I just couldn't do it - with such disregard for the realities involved, such as in this video, when the 2 players took a short moment to decide which would be the thrower. I did have a few partners who started the count extremely quickly/early, in my estimation, and I just had to bear with it. Now, to the actions of the new Lead, in the video . . . I'm really able to be calm, on the floor, but this would have been a supreme test of my self-control, at the moment, and in the lockerroom!!! I've never blocked a partner, but this guy would've been the first! |
I've never seen this. I really believe I would go to the guy and tell him he has no business calling this, it isn't his responsibility to call this. I would then call both coaches together and tell them we have an inadvertent whistle and continue from there. I would then call my supervisor immediately after the game. There is absolutely no reason for the trail to get involved with this play.
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Forget for a moment about how right or wrong the call may have been. What would it take to make you get involved in the 5 second call from any position other than trail?
I think my partner would have to hit his head and be unconscious first. So what do you do first then, call 5 seconds or call timeout and seek medical attention for him? Depends on who the partner is, I guess. :D |
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Yes, I'm the new trail. I could easily have deleted this thread -- I have the power, you know -- but what purpose would it serve? Besides, every time someone accuses me of being a red ass or a hothead, I can just point to this video to prove that I have restraint even I didn't know that I have. |
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You're right, it is hard to say what someone would do in a certain situation without actually being in it. I was in no way saying you were at fault, or what you did was wrong. Please don't read my post wrong, my whole point was why is the new lead even counting. I actually think you showed incredible restraint, I probably would have lost my mind! |
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But you're right. There should have not been a whistle, so it was in fact inadvertant. That said, I think the coaches are going to want more of an explaination and I think the best approach would be "the 5 second count was started incorrectly, and as a result, we have an inadvertant whistle ..." Of course this is all assuming the partner goes with this, and if he doesn't trust you to make your own 5 second call, I doubt he's going to trust you when you say the call needs to be changed. |
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http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...er-called.html |
This is why I like a regular partner. We have an understanding of whose responsibility it is when situations arise and we don't have clusters like this happen.
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I'd like to know what the assignor thought after seeing this.
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http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...er-called.html Quote:
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Having a regular partner does not eliminate these problems or create them. I have worked in both situations and have seen problems in both situations. For one having a regular partner you often will not go against that partner when needed. Having different partners that are hired by a person that put you together for a reason, the assignor might know who is the stronger official and puts you there accordingly. This situation was more about the official over stepping his responsibility and not willing to come off of the mess he made. Heck the fact he made the call and went to the table is telling that he knows he was ultimately in the wrong if he had to do that much explaining. If he made the call and was confident in his decision, he would have just made the call and walked away. He looked disheveled in how he was acting. Peace |
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This to me was about the individual, not what the rest of us are used to. Peace |
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I like working with multiple partners b/c it gives me different perspectives. If I were to work with the same partner all the time I feel like we would get too comfortable with bad habits. Working with new partners, I'm more likely to have someone ask, "hey, why are you doing that?" |
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It's actually a great teaching tool. |
Your Attitude Made My Day Here
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BV, 3-man crew. To set the Crew Chief's mood, earlier in the game our other partner had granted a time-out to the defense during a live ball. 2nd or 3rd quarter. Made free throw, followed by a press, including on-ball pressure on the throw-in. I was the C and had set up slightly below free throw line extended. CC was new Trail with throw-in responsibilities. A1 runs end line to my half of the court so that he is easily in my line of site. B1 reaches up and touches the ball. I blow my whistle (from the C) to call a T for the throw-in infraction. Trail makes a beeline towards me with fire in his eyes. He does take the time to ask me what my whistle is for, but after my answer and in no uncertain terms he informs me that A1 had reached the ball over the end line. He calls the Lead over and tells us that we are going with an inadvertent whistle, and that we better not f**k his game up (remembering the earlier time-out gaffe). I had no problem with his demeanor during the event other than the "my game" reference. "This game" would have been more appropriate. |
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I finally reconciled myself that he wouldn't bother to spend all that time breaking my game down unless he felt 1) that I could handle it; and 2) that he saw potential me, and felt I was worth the effort. Now when I get the chance to mentor or observe younger officials I tell them I can either pat you on the back and say "great job", or I can point out those little things you need to work on that will help you move up whatever ladder you're trying to climb. |
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Contra . . . Post season partner last year, as I tried to enact the same kinda post-game analysis: "No, we don't do that kinda stuff with our crew. We figure, if a partner called it, he wouldn't have called it if it wasn't correct." Poor guy. Lack of self- and peer-critique showed. Lack of a good post-game seems closer to the latter than the former. |
Freddy,
APG and I attended a camp run by a very successful NBA official this past off-season. He swears by peer criticism. The camp includes group breakdown of camp games. He would get highly irritated when we would be afraid to candidly assess our fellow officials on tape. |
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Peace |
I'm Not Judging, But ...
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We have evolved over the last thirty years. It is now acceptable to ask, delicately, "Hey? What did you see on (such and such) play?", and to then discuss the interpretation of the rule on the play, even involving plays like block/charge decisions, such discussions being absolutely verboten thirty short years ago. |
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Yet I must confess that I did overturn a crew member's foul call who called in my PCA, and his call was pure wrong then we had a rather heated side discussion at any rate, we can never allow hubris to such an extreme extent as was shown in that vid. |
Gesundheit ...
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