The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Non-typical / Interesting Calls Made Recently? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98564-non-typical-interesting-calls-made-recently.html)

Kansas Ref Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:59am
Non-typical / Interesting Calls Made Recently?
 
Has anyone made any non-typical, un-common, and/or interesting calls recently?

While reffing an adult league game on Saturday, I called a technical foul on a defensive player B1 who reached thru the end line plane and made contact with the ball while A1 was holding it and attempting a throw in under B1's pressure. It was a close game--call made in last 3 minutes of game.

Coach approached me during the FT administration near scorer table, looking quizzical and asked "hey ref, don't we get a warning first, ai'nt the first call a warning?" I replied, " we don't issue warnings for violations, and that type of violation is well-known in the game". He fumed and walked away, accepting the call but was clearly upset/miffed. Fans were equally [and predictably] baffled and became riotous. Any of you made non-typical calls recently that you can describe?

bob jenkins Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 942523)
Coach approached me during the FT administration near scorer table, looking quizzical and asked "hey ref, don't we get a warning first, ai'nt the first call a warning?" I replied, " we don't issue warnings for violations, and that type of violation is well-known in the game".
But, on a similar play (reaching through without touching) you do get a warning.

So, I would have answered along the lines of "If you reach through and don't touch the ball, you get the warning. But, once you make contact, it's an immediate T."

Kansas Ref Tue Oct 28, 2014 02:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 942524)
But, on a similar play (reaching through without touching) you do get a warning.

So, I would have answered along the lines of "If you reach through and don't touch the ball, you get the warning. But, once you make contact, it's an immediate T."
*Point well-taken bobjenkin...you are so "courteous" with the coaches.

wjc3 Tue Oct 28, 2014 02:45pm
Interesting Play
 
Pre-Season high school league.
Incoming substitute (A6) was walking to the table during a live ball. The ball went bouncing towards the sideline off of B team and A6 touches the live ball. He did not catch the ball "on purpose" but more out of a reaction. B1 had a chance to make a play on the ball before it went out of bounds.
I conferred with my partner and we awarded the ball to the B team for a sidline throw-in.

Things we considered since we did not know the exact rule: intent, advantage gained, bench personnel.

Thoughts??

zm1283 Tue Oct 28, 2014 02:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc3 (Post 942532)
Pre-Season high school league.
Incoming substitute (A6) was walking to the table during a live ball. The ball went bouncing towards the sideline off of B team and A6 touches the live ball. He did not catch the ball "on purpose" but more out of a reaction. B1 had a chance to make a play on the ball before it went out of bounds.
I conferred with my partner and we awarded the ball to the B team for a sidline throw-in.

Things we considered since we did not know the exact rule: intent, advantage gained, bench personnel.

Thoughts??
Was A6 standing out of bounds? If so, and the ball touches him, the ball is out of bounds at that point. B caused the ball to go OOB, so give A the throw-in.

wjc3 Tue Oct 28, 2014 03:06pm
Reply
 
A6 was out of bounds, but B1 would have been able to save the ball. A6 took away B1's advantage by grabbing the ball right in front of him.

OKREF Tue Oct 28, 2014 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc3 (Post 942535)
A6 was out of bounds, but B1 would have been able to save the ball. A6 took away B1's advantage by grabbing the ball right in front of him.
Doesn't matter. A's ball.

Smitty Tue Oct 28, 2014 03:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc3 (Post 942535)
A6 was out of bounds, but B1 would have been able to save the ball. A6 took away B1's advantage by grabbing the ball right in front of him.
You don't know what would have happened if A6 had not touched the ball (from normal reaction - not intent to change the play - those are your words). You only said that B1 had a chance to make a play. How do you know B1 wouldn't have fumbled the ball out of bounds anyway? Regardless, it doesn't matter. What actually happened is the only thing that matters. What didn't happen is irrelevant.

Kansas Ref Tue Oct 28, 2014 04:11pm
Thanks for sharing @ wcj3.

JetMetFan Tue Oct 28, 2014 04:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 942539)
You don't know what would have happened if A6 had not touched the ball (from normal reaction - not intent to change the play - those are your words). You only said that B1 had a chance to make a play. How do you know B1 wouldn't have fumbled the ball out of bounds anyway? Regardless, it doesn't matter. What actually happened is the only thing that matters. What didn't happen is irrelevant.
+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc3 (Post 942535)
A6 was out of bounds, but B1 would have been able to save the ball. A6 took away B1's advantage by grabbing the ball right in front of him.
The coaches may accept that explanation but many don't know the rules. Your assignor won't/shouldn't because there's no rule to support what you did.

BillyMac Tue Oct 28, 2014 04:27pm
A Person Is Not An Object ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 942533)
Was A6 standing out of bounds? If so, and the ball touches him, the ball is out of bounds at that point.
Just a reminder, if a player, holding, or dribbling, the ball, accidentally touches A6 (who is standing out of bounds), that is not an out of bounds violation. I believe that the same thing is true if a player, holding, or dribbling, the ball, accidentally touches a coach, a cheerleader, a fan, the police officer in the corner, etc. If said player accidentally touches my seeing eye dog, who is out of bounds, then that's a different story.

wjc3 Tue Oct 28, 2014 04:51pm
Follow up
 
Thanks for the rules clarification.
But what if a bench player purposely got off the bench and interfered with the play?
What would you have then?
Technical foul for unsporting conduct?

Camron Rust Tue Oct 28, 2014 05:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjc3 (Post 942553)
Thanks for the rules clarification.
But what if a bench player purposely got off the bench and interfered with the play?
What would you have then?
Technical foul for unsporting conduct?
Certainly...but that is completely different.

AremRed Tue Oct 28, 2014 06:15pm
Let's see...

I too called a tech for reaching across the plane and contacting the ball this summer.

Partner explained a call to a coach, partner turned away to run to Lead and coach waved him off behind his back. I saw it, coach got whacked.

Partner rung up a coach and I went to Lead tableside to administer the FT's. Sure enough the kid bricked the first one and it bounced right to the freshly whacked coach. As I was walking toward him to get the ball he threw it to my partner across the court. Wish I could say I tossed him but I didn't :(

Had a play where a player ran OOB along the endline and came back into the corner, received a pass, and nailed a three. Didn't call it. :mad:

Had a held ball off the opening tip before team control had been established. Re-jumped with the players involved in the held ball.

Kid threw the ball at me over his shoulder; on purpose. He got DQ'd.

Kansas Ref Wed Oct 29, 2014 09:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 942557)
Let's see...

I too called a tech for reaching across the plane and contacting the ball this summer.

*Glad to see that!

Partner explained a call to a coach, partner turned away to run to Lead and coach waved him off behind his back. I saw it, coach got whacked.

*Great crew unity!

Partner rung up a coach and I went to Lead tableside to administer the FT's. Sure enough the kid bricked the first one and it bounced right to the freshly whacked coach. As I was walking toward him to get the ball he threw it to my partner across the court. Wish I could say I tossed him but I didn't :(

*Ohhh if I only had enough space here to list all of my "regrets/second-thoughts" over the years....thanks for sharing.

Had a play where a player ran OOB along the endline and came back into the corner, received a pass, and nailed a three. Didn't call it. :mad:

*You patiently observed the play from start, progression, completion and nailed it!

Had a held ball off the opening tip before team control had been established. Re-jumped with the players involved in the held ball.

*quite rare occurrence!

Kid threw the ball at me over his shoulder; on purpose. He got DQ'd.

*a bit Harsh, no? but hey they players/coaches prolly had you well-pissed off by that time I sure!
thank for sharing

BryanV21 Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 942574)
thank for sharing
You say he "nailed it" when talking about the player running out of bounds on the baseline, receiving a pass in the corner, and hitting a three. However, ARemRed had a frowny face, which is probably because he didn't make the call when he should have. Running OOBs like that is a violation.

Kansas Ref Wed Oct 29, 2014 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 942589)
You say he "nailed it" when talking about the player running out of bounds on the baseline, receiving a pass in the corner, and hitting a three. However, ARemRed had a frowny face, which is probably because he didn't make the call when he should have. Running OOBs like that is a violation.
*I interpreted AremReds as meaning/saying that he "dis-allowed" that 3-ball--he waved it off--is what I thought he said/meant. Obviously, I missed the emoticon in his post and lost proper context/misinterpreted of what he wrote.
However, good catch though, BryanV211!

BryanV21 Wed Oct 29, 2014 03:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 942601)
*I interpreted AremReds as meaning/saying that he "dis-allowed" that 3-ball--he waved it off--is what I thought he said/meant. Obviously, I missed the emoticon in his post and lost proper context/misinterpreted of what he wrote.
However, good catch though, BryanV211!
I figured one of two things, because of how well respected you are around here...

1. You misread his post, making an honest mistake

2. I got another rule wrong. It's gotten to the point that whenever I disagree with somebody here I think I'm wrong.

That leads me to this point, which is off topic (sorry)... this site is awesome. I just told my crew chief about it because it's helped me so much. Not just in rules, but it's humbled me and made me a better official.

AremRed Wed Oct 29, 2014 04:03pm
Yeah I missed the running OOB violation. The kid compounded the issue by making the three.

Kid throwing the ball at me over his shoulder wasn't a flagrant tech, he had gotten one earlier in the game. It was a toss in my general direction -- worthy of a 'common' technical but not flagrant tech. If the kid turned and woofed it straight at me then I would go flagrant right away.

Popey Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:06am
Varsity Boys Jamboree game last night.

A1 throwing ball in on sideline near his basket. B1 jumps and instead of jumping vertically jumps forward and contacts A1 out of bounds. At first I gave a Technical foul hand signal, but then saw the error of my ways ;) and changed it to an intentional foul on B1. Team A shot 2 foul shots and was given throw in at previous spot.

Raymond Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:14pm
Had my first game of the season this past Saturday and wouldn't you know it, because of this thread, we started of the season with 3 unusual calls where we got together to make sure we were straight on our ruling.

Men's JuCo so we were using NCAA-Men's rule set:
  • A1 bringing ball up court vs. man pressure. A1 ends his dribble while straddling division line and attempts to pass ball to A2 who is still in backcourt. B1, with backcourt status, tips the pass, which hits off A2 and rolls back to free throw line. A2 retrieves ball and then passes across court to A1 who is still in backcourt. Shot clock hits 25 seconds as A1 is still dribbling in backcourt. I am trail and whistle the 10 second violation.
  • Post player A1 loses ball while making a move to basket and the ball goes across the lane and is headed OOB along end line. A2 saves the ball by throwing it out to the 28' line right in front of the Trail. B3 is just about to grab the ball when A3 dives for ball and takes out B3's legs. Trail whistles foul. We confer and determine that A still had team control, so no bonus free throws are shot.
  • A1 on a fast break gets chased down by B1 who knocks ball away from A1 towards the end line underneath the basket. B1 chases ball down and saves it by grabbing it with 2 hands and throwing it over his head. Ball travels over backboard back towards the playing court. We call the violation, but also confer and reset shot clock because we determine B1 had PC during the save.

Camron Rust Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 942950)
Had my first game of the season this past Saturday and wouldn't you know it, because of this thread, we started of the season with 3 unusual calls where we got together to make sure we were straight on our ruling.

Men's JuCo so we were using NCAA-Men's rule set:
Must have been great to get back on the court and with activity that was sure to keep things interesting!

Stat-Man Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:12pm
Not sure if this counts as unusual or interesting, but it happened in my last game of the Fall MS girls season.

A1 is shooting the second of two free throws. As the ball is in flight and before it hits anything, B4 crosses the three-point line to crash for the rebound. As the T, I signaled a delayed violation. Meanwhile, A1's try is an air ball. I confer with my partner to let him know about the violation I observed, and we go with a double violation and AP.

Kansas Ref Wed Nov 05, 2014 09:55am
Popeye, CamoronRust, StatMang, all of those cited incidences were certainly atypical and worthy of reflection by us all.
thanks for sharing!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1