POE announcer question
 

There seems to be some confusion in my area about the announcer POE. The main issue is it says they are not permitted to make announcements while clock is running or in a live ball situation. It later gives things that can be announced such as who scored. So does the list of permitted things allowed to be done only when the clock is stopped and dead ball situations? This would be eliminating announcements right after a score correct?

The way I read it is the announcer can not say anything during a live ball. Whether that's who scored, who was fouled, etc. He/She can ONLY talk when the ball is dead.

Is not the ball briefly dead after a made basket?

Sure, for a couple seconds.

Send like yet another rule that we don't have to care about.

Yes, but not in theory...
 

Technically the announcer is allowed to announce who scored but since he can only do so in that short amount of time while the ball is dead between the ball going through the hoop and the start of the ensuing throw in he better spit it out fast. Plus, if all he can say is "Bill Jones", "James Monroe", or "Lefty Twofoots" I doubt it will be that cool so few will want to do it.

Announcers around here aren't too bad but there are a few schools that were headed in the direction of going too far. I can forsee an announcer trying to argue that the rules permit him to announce the name of who scored if they don't understand when the ball becomes live after a made basket.

At our last meeting we were encouraged to visit with the announcer as part of our pregame with the table. I'm thinking about printing out tiny little copies of the rule & POE just in case someone needs a reminder.

We've been told that basically the rule was to stop the announcer from doing a play by play call like you would hear on the radio. No running commentary during the game.

imo, it would be nice if the states (at least IL) decided to interpet it / enforce it that way -- but that's not what the rule says

The Way It Should Be
 

Am striving around here to propose the shift of this idiocy from officials' responsibility to where it belongs, the responsibility of the AD's and/or game administrators.
This ought not be an officials' issue. Next things they'll have us enforce: concession stand health standards, the Pantone shading of the color of pens the scorekeepers use, and the grains of hardness of the water coming out of the locker room showers.
What the heck is the NFHS thinkin'?
Had this really been a problem in the area of the country where you officiate?

It's Not A Pro Am Game ...
 

Only once, and we, as officials had to handle it:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post809640

In my mind, I'm pleased that the NFHS has given us rule backing to stop this kind of behavior.

There isn't even a penalty for any issue with the announcer. We were instructed last year when this came out, that any problem we have with an announcer, we should continue the game and notify our state director and they would handle it.

In a perfect world that would be great. But since the announcer, music, sound effects, etc. could affect the other teams ability to fairly play ball and since there are many administrators who would do nothing (out of fear, incompetence, or collusion) then unfortunately it falls on us as the only impartial arbitrators of the game.

However, we would rarely have to enforce any of these "tangient" rules (uniforms, fans, announcers) if NFHS and state orgs would make the penalty harsh enough to really bite and then insist we enforce them that way. In my board, we are "discouraged" from penalizing the team with a tech or forfeit for the behaviors of those not with the team but I'll bet if we strictly enforced one warning, one tech, and then forfiet the game if the responsible team/admin did not get it under control it wouldn't be our problem for long.

And, while I do follow my boards thinking to a degree (have never had to give a tech or forfieted a game for these) I get REALLY grumpy if a team makes me have to deal with such issues. Leashes get shorter and trigger fingers get a lot more sensitive.

still confused?
 

I don't think that they are allowed to announce after a made bucket because the clock is still running. this is what is on the pdf from NFHS

The announcer shall be prohibited from making an announcement while the clock is running and while the clock is stopped and the ball is alive…such as during a free throw, a throw in, etc. Doing so could potentially affect communication of coaches, players or be disconcerting

So if I am understanding this they can not announce who scored after a made bucket because the clock is running, correct?

I would hope it means what was mentioned earlier: They can't do play-by-play as though the game is an And1 mix tape (and yes, I ran into this situation in a BV game 2-3 seasons ago). I would hope the rule allows announcers to say who scored and whether it's a 2 or a 3. In other words, what we hear when we go to pro or college games.

I would also hope when they say "announcements while the clock is running" or when the clock is stopped and the ball is live the goal is to eliminate cheering, leading chants of "defense" or just saying something like, "You can buy 50-50 tickets at the concession stand."

Unless an assignor or supervisor says otherwise, I don't see myself making a fuss over what the announcer says.

If an announcer says "John Smith with the three" I'm going to let it go. However, if it's more like "John Smith with the THREEEEEEE" then I'll probably let the head coach know that the announcer is flirting with an unsportsmanlike penalty by not following this year's new rule regarding announcements. Chances are that coach will make sure it's taken care of for us. Just like if one of his assistant coaches is getting out of hand.

Basically, just don't do or say something that can be deemed disrespectful or interfering with the game.

What's your rule basis for that? Who is going to be penalized? Home team coach? Administrative T? What if it's a holiday tournament? Slippery slope there.

Rule 2.8.1
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.

As for the penalty I'd cite Rule 10.4.1.f which states that a bench technical would be called for "inciting undesirable crowd reactions." Or there's 10.4.1.d which states a bench tech would be called for "disrespectfully addressing, baiting or taunting an opponent."

i think
 

The best course of action in my opinion would be to notify the announcer what he is doing isn't permitted. If he or she continues have them removed. I would only revert to a T if I had no other choice. I would rather see him removed from the gym before a T is issued. Same with fans.

All I know, is in my state we were directed not to give a T under any circumstance. If it is a problem, we are to notify our state association.

Yeah, perhaps you're right. Go to the source of the problem first (the announcer).

I'm just not sure about stopping the game to find the game manager to alert them to the problem. I'd almost rather make a quick comment about the problem to the coach.

Either way, I agree that a tech is the last thing I want to do. I'd hate penalizing the team for something that was out of their control.

What if the visiting team takes offense to what is said (see Billy's situation from a few years ago)? Shouldn't we nip that in the bud right away, so it doesn't possibly cause issues during the game?

Both of those are a BIG reach. IN 10-4-1F...The announcer isn't the crowd...and that rule is more intended for the coach's actions....10-4-1D: announcing isn't really addressing the opponent.

I'd be more apt to have the announcer removed...only AFTER addressing it with game admin. and having them try to correct it. Penalizing a team by handing out T's here isn't supported by rule.

Why the sudden outrage on announcers. This was a new rule for the 2013-14 season. It's just been made a POE for this year, and you will find no penalty for this.

We have been instructed to get with on site administration, and if need be, they can remove them.

If those penalties in Rule 10 can not be handed down, then do we have another rule that doesn't have a penalty attached to it?

Our rulemakers like to force us to give empty threats.

no penalty
 

You are right as there is no penalty but you still need to enforce it. Just like there is no penalty for coming into the game with illegal leggings or arm sleeves. It simply isn't allowed. Just as you would not let the player play with those you can't allow the announcer to announce when clock is running and when ball is live, clocked stopped.

Okay...

When things first go wrong with the announcing, tell the announcer to clean up his act or you'll have him removed. If there's another issue, have game management remove him.

So much for passing responsibility for fixing things on the coach. Damn. LOL

A few things
 

Rule 1-18 only says that the announcer is profibited from making announcements during the game. It makes no mention of dead balls, half time, time outs, etc. It is quite vague. The POE on the other hand is much more detailed. The POE does say the announcer may say who scored which seems to be in conflict with the "stopped clock" requirement since it makes no sense to announce who scored several minutes after it happens so I would expect it to happen right after the basket. Its a dead ball but the clock is running so it seems muddled. But, as I said earlier, even if allowed I don't see how there would be enough time to do so. I am more than comfortable going with no announcement at all in this case.

The announcer is not part of the table crew (only the scorer and timer are mentioned as such) so I feel you could be justified including the announcer as a fan/follower. In addition, casebook play 1.18 indicates that a scoreboard operator who is acting unsportingly can be penalized with a T so I don't see why that doesn't also apply to an announcer (especially since the scoreboard operator is probably also the official timer).

In practice, if I get no where with the announcer after a polite reminder of the POE then I can stand in front of the table and the game can wait until the announcer is replaced. I am sure the game administrator's patience will run out before mine will.

End of Issue Here
 

Phone calls and emails today to various and sundry local AD's asking their opinion of the issue. This actual response from one of the was representative of their take on it:

"It is athletic director responsibility to train and hire announcers. However, if an announcer is violating policy, the official should bring it to the athletic director's attention. Blatant violation should be written up on the state report form."

That particular AD also happens to serve on our state's representative board.
That's also how the issue was taught at an association rules meeting tonight.

What this boils down to is professionalism. For those of us who have and will continue to announce with professionalism this will not be a problem. The only things that I notice that will be the biggest change is that you aren't supposed to reference how many points are scored by a player and you aren't supposed to reference how many personal fouls a player has and how many team fouls a team has. I disagree with those points...but will go along with them.

As far as making announcements during play...nothing has changed there. We should NEVER make announcements during play unless it is an emergency...in which case play would more than likely be stopped. We will still be continued to announce the player's name who scores a basket...that hasn't changed.

What this will do away with is the announcer who thinks they are auditioning for a play-by-play position with a local radio station and the want to be NBA announcers. For those of us who take our job seriously...this will be welcomed! I cringe every time I visit an opposing gym and hear those types of announcers.

To all of my fellow announcers...stay professional and the enforcement of the POE's will be minimal.

Still change
 

Most of what u said is correct except announcers cannot announce who scores unless the clock is stopped and ball is not live. That takes away from a player scoring and announcers saying "Billy Jones for two". That is by rule not permitted

That makes no sense since the clock doesn't stop after a basket is scored unless there is a foul, a time out or is at the end of the quarter. There is a distinct difference in making an "announcement" versus referencing who scored.

Agreed


I can agree in terms of fouls. That actually helps us on the court when we hear a player has 4 or 5 or a team has 6, 7, 9 or 10. I disagree on the points. No need to say that during the play. If a kid has some crazy amount that can probably wait until a dead ball.

I think he's referring to whether it's a two or three point basket, as opposed to saying "Greg Jones now has 20 points." I don't see the problem with saying it was a two or three, if the shot is in question.

Announcer Responsibilities

May Be Announced
Player who scored
Player charged with foul
Player attempting free throw
Team charged with time out
Length of timeout 30/60
Player entering the game
Team Rosters

May not be Announced
Number of points player has scored
Number of fouls on player
Number of fouls team has
Number of time outs or number remaining
Time remaining in quarter/game
Type of foul or violation
Emphatic 2 or 3 point goal.

This is the NFHS bulletin point.

If that's the case then we agree on all counts, though it's only if a shot is a three. Even then if we do what we're supposed to do everyone in the gym will know it's a three.

Frankly, I think this entire thing is silly. As long as announcers don't go all "And 1" on us, or do anything disrespectful, then who cares? I don't know what's worse, this or the fashion police stuff.

I don't. The rule is vague, so I doubt my state will care if my enforcement is vague.

And I agree with all posters in that our games are not to be ab-used as a time for the "wanna be speech majors to hone their speaking skills;we hear enough embellishments from the fans. So often when they are yelling "and one" in reality it is "and none" is what I think to tell them, heheh.

But I must say during a game break the PA woman realllyyy advertised the taco and cheese on sale in the lobby. Hilarious even!

Got this in an email this morning, this is how we are to handle this.

"The announcer repnsibilities are listed. Should you be at a contest where the announcer is not following this protocol-- DO NOT CONFRONT THE ANNOUNCER. notify game management if possible and/or contact me(director of officiating).

I don't see this as a huge problem in my games...It is a shame that a rule statement for all schools has been created. I'm not a fan of it but this is my take on it:

The rule or statement from the Nfhs which is contained in the power point presentation addresses:

1. WHEN announcements/comments can be made-- it says, unless there is an emergency:
"announcements or COMMENTS shall be made during those times when there is a stoppage of the clock and the ball is not live such as time outs,between quarters, pre game, half time and post game." NFHS presentation Slide 4.

The use of the word "comments" in the slide means announcer can't say anything unless clock stopped and ball dead.

The presentation then goes on to discuss

2. What announcements/comments can be made (when the clock is stopped and the ball dead).

The items listed above are examples of announcements that can and cannot be made when the ball is dead and clock stopped.

the presentation says we are to contact game management if it becomes an issue during the game. our illinois site adds that we are to write a special report if an issue arises.

The NFHS may say something different on it eventually but the wording of it at this time seems in my opinion to require silence from the announcer unless clock stopped and ball dead.

A discussion on this rule happened at our game last night, not by the officials, but by the table personnel.

It's understandable where this rule came from with some announcers thinking they are on the "And1" tour, but the POE seems like "throwing the baby out with the bath water".

Since the actual NFHS rule wording is vague, we now have to rely on the POE description. Going by that they want the announcer to be a "Champion of Character", but essentially restrict them to being a tennis announcer.

The biggest issue with the POE is the fact that nothing can be said with the clock running. It may not happen often, but you can go several game minutes and MANY points with no stoppage. Should the announcer then give a recap (as fast as possible before the ball is returned to play) of "The last 9 baskets were made, in order, by John A., Bill, B, John A., Larry C., George M., etc...."? That just seems asinine and ridiculous. Maybe that's not what NFHS intended, but that's how they worded it. It's one thing to keep things like "Tonight's winning 50/50 number is..." to time outs and stoppages, but to say the 5 second "#23, John A. with the basket" would be so disruptive to the game and need a rule for it is another.

Now most people agree that, unless the announcer really is going overboard, most won't make a big fuss about it. I texted a friend who is a supervising official in PA after the game. He stated the biggest issue is that there is no designated punishment (unless your state organization implements one) outlined by the NFHS. He also stated that you could probably, in six degrees of separation type reasoning, end up giving the announcer (and the home team) a T, it really isn't supported in the rule book. You would have to assert that by breaking rule 1-18 and not complying they are then being "unsportsmanlike" thus breaking another rule, which then allows for the T to be given. The problem interpreting it that way is that it can't always be consistent. If it is a neutral site game, or a holiday tournament game you would end up having to penalize a team who doesn't control that personnel. If a rule can't consistently be applied then the punishment is not appropriate. The best course of action is, if you really want the person to be quiet or gone, is refuse to continue the game until they are removed (similar to a disruptive fan). As Rich1 said, the AD/Game Manager's patience will run out LONG before yours will.