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-   -   "Clarification" ??? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98522-clarification.html)

BillyMac Thu Oct 16, 2014 07:14pm

"Clarification" ???
 
This rule (9-9 below) appeared in the 1996-97 NFHS Basketball Rulebook, the year before they, again, changed release to hit.

9-9: No opponent occupying a marked lane space shall break the plane of the free throw line. Note: The restriction applies until the ball touches the ring, or backboard, or until the free throw ends.

Now the NFHS had decided to, again, go to the release, however, 9-9 is not in the 2014-15 NFHS Basketball rulebook.

Last night was our local IAABO board's annual interpretation (new rules) meeting. Our interpreter told us that there was a "clarification" from the "national office" regarding protecting the free throw shooter, and that the 1996-97 Rule 9-9 (above) is "in play" for this year.

At the least, this is "in play" for the entire state of Connecticut (we're 100% IAABO, all local interpreters coordinate their new rules presentations). Does anyone know if this "clarification" also came down from IAABO international (i.e. Peter Webb).

Does anyone know if the NFHS was, in any way, involved with this "clarification"?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Oct 16, 2014 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941796)
This rule (9-9 below) appeared in the 1996-97 NFHS Basketball Rulebook, the year before they, again, changed release to hit.

9-9: No opponent occupying a marked lane space shall break the plane of the free throw line. Note: The restriction applies until the ball touches the ring, or backboard, or until the free throw ends.

Now the NFHS had decided to, again, go to the release, however, 9-9 is not in the 2014-15 NFHS Basketball rulebook.

Last night was our local IAABO board's annual interpretation (new rules) meeting. Our interpreter told us that there was a "clarification" from the "national office" regarding protecting the free throw shooter, and that the 1996-97 Rule 9-9 (above) is "in play" for this year.

At the least, this is "in play" for the entire state of Connecticut (we're 100% IAABO, all local interpreters coordinate their new rules presentations). Does anyone know if this "clarification" also came down from IAABO international (i.e. Peter Webb).

Does anyone know if the NFHS was, in any way, involved with this "clarification"?


Billy:

When in the Sam Hill did you fly to Toledo and climb up into my attic?

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:34pm

I have heard of no such clarification and I do not remember any such restriction being discussed. It seems to me that they just took on the college rule and did not try to get cute for once.

This was not a problem this summer when we used the new rule, but I do remember that being a distinction and I have to think about if the rule had that portion of the restriction.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 941806)
I have heard of no such clarification and I do not remember any such restriction being discussed. It seems to me that they just took on the college rule and did not try to get cute for once.

This was not a problem this summer when we used the new rule, but I do remember that being a distinction and I have to think about if the rule had that portion of the restriction.

Peace


Jeff:

Your Leathernecks did a number on my Penguins last Saturday.

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:20am

I am working so much college football, I am not paying attention to them as much as I used to. I forget they even have a team, I hardly go back there for any game.

Peace

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:47am

Bump ...
 
Is Connecticut the only place in the country that has broached this subject?

Has anyone out there in Forum-Land heard of such a clarification?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941796)
This rule (9-9 below) appeared in the 1996-97 NFHS Basketball Rulebook, the year before they, again, changed release to hit.

9-9: No opponent occupying a marked lane space shall break the plane of the free throw line. Note: The restriction applies until the ball touches the ring, or backboard, or until the free throw ends.

Now the NFHS had decided to, again, go to the release, however, 9-9 is not in the 2014-15 NFHS Basketball rulebook.

Last night was our local IAABO board's annual interpretation (new rules) meeting. Our interpreter told us that there was a "clarification" from the "national office" regarding protecting the free throw shooter, and that the 1996-97 Rule 9-9 (above) is "in play" for this year.

At the least, this is "in play" for the entire state of Connecticut (we're 100% IAABO, all local interpreters coordinate their new rules presentations). Does anyone know if this "clarification" also came down from IAABO international (i.e. Peter Webb).

Does anyone know if the NFHS was, in any way, involved with this "clarification"?


Freddy Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941878)
Has anyone out there in Forum-Land heard of such a clarification?

Nope, not here. Of course, by virtue of the protective anonymity afforded here, and the pseudonym used as a login name, you have no clue where I live and officiate. ;)

JRutledge Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:48am

If they did not put it in the rule, it is not apart of the rule. If your state Billy wants to have an additional restriction, that is their right. But you should not look towards old rules or interpretations when the rule was entirely changed anyway. And other levels do not seem to have this distinction either.

Peace

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:20pm

He's A Rebel (The Crystals, 1962) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 941882)
If your state Billy wants to have an additional restriction, that is their right.

Which is what concerns me.

It doesn't bother me when a state "tinkers" with a minor rule, or mechanic, like Connecticut stating that headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, and leg sleeves, have to be the same color, or when Texas dictates that the referee sound his whistle before entering the vicinity of the court (to discourage dunking). These fall under the "When in Rome..." flexibility guidelines oft used in the officiating world.

But this is adding an entire section to a rule that nobody else in the country seems to be doing. I don't know why, but it just makes me uncomfortable being a maverick. If the NFHS wanted free throw line restrictions in the new rule, then they would have placed them in the rule, as God , and Dr. Naismith, intended.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...7s_a_rebel.jpg

Rich1 Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:23pm

Its not there, or is it...
 
I do not see anything in the rules specifically profibiting a defender from breaking the plane of the free throw line after the release in order to block out (only restrictions on the shooter).

I don't think a rule is really needed because if the shooter holds his position then the defender won't be able to go far without displacing the shooter which I'll call a foul. Since most shooters set up within inches of the line I don't see how a defender could break the plane by much without displacing the shooter.

It will be a situational thing for me based on displacement or advantage/disadvantage and I'm sure anyone who gets called for such a foul will not be breaking the plane in the future.

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:33pm

He's A Rebel 'Cause He Never Ever Does What He Should ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 941889)
I don't think a rule is really needed because if the shooter holds his position then the defender won't be able to go far without displacing the shooter which I'll call a foul.

We were also told to ignore any contact as incidental unless it's intentional, or flagrant. And, by Connecticut standards, the shooter would get another free throw if his original free throw missed because of the free throw line "violation" by the defender.

Have any of you IAABO guys heard anything about this, or has IAABO Connecticut decided to secede from the Union?

JRutledge Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:37pm

OK Billy, how many schools are you going to play against that is going to be from another state?

I can speak for me, if I get one that is usually about as high as I get to see a team that is out of state. So if that is the position of your state, then so be it.

But as stated, I do not see how this would not be a foul anyway. And considering this is not something you see as a trend at other levels (meaning players are not trying this as a strategy) I do not think you have much to worry about either way.

Peace

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:43pm

What Ring Finger ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 941893)
OK Billy, how many schools are you going to play against that is going to be from another state?

Fewer than I can count on one hand missing a few fingers (like my high school wood shop teacher).

It's just that I don't like being an outlier.

JRutledge Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941894)
Fewer than I can count on one hand missing a few fingers (like my high school wood shop teacher).

It's just that I don't like being an outlier.

Well that sounds like a personal problem.

Maybe you need to read the Serenity Prayer? :)

Peace

Adam Sun Oct 19, 2014 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941892)
We were also told to ignore any contact as incidental unless it's intentional, or flagrant.

During a live ball?

PG_Ref Sun Oct 19, 2014 06:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941878)
Is Connecticut the only place in the country that has broached this subject?

Has anyone out there in Forum-Land heard of such a clarification?

The NFHS included a statement in the casebook 9.1 Comment ... "Once a free throw starts, no player occupying a marked lane space may enter or leave such space or break with either foot the vertical plane of any lane or lane-space boundary until the ball touches the ring or backboard or until the free throw ends..."

The corrections NFHS posted to their website last week stated...
"Page 70, 9.1 COMMENT: Sentence 2 should read: Once a free throw begins no player may enter or leave a marked lane space or break with either foot the vertical plane of a free throw lane line or lane space boundary prior to the release of the ball by the free thrower. Delete last sentence.

So, NFHS has stated it, maybe not as obvious as they could have.

Adam Sun Oct 19, 2014 06:44pm

They will probably give us an unannounced editorial change next year.

That's what I would say if I wasn't still waiting on them to fix another glaring hole in the rules.

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 06:50pm

Thinking Alike ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941892)
We were also told to ignore any contact as incidental unless it's intentional, or flagrant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 941913)
During a live ball?

It doesn't make any sense to me either, but that's what we were told. I'll follow up on this as soon as our interpreter's Power Point is posted on our board's web page.

BillyMac Sun Oct 19, 2014 06:54pm

Inquiring Minds Want To Know ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 941915)
So, NFHS has stated it, maybe not as obvious as they could have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 941915)
Delete last sentence.

And replace with what?

I don't know how to react? Boom goes the dynamite? The plot thickens?

Should I be more confused, or less confused?

Are Connecticut IAABO, IAABO International, and the NFHS, all on the same page?

I'm confused.

BillyMac Mon Nov 10, 2014 07:06am

Free Throw Line ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941917)
I'll follow up on this as soon as our interpreter's Power Point is posted on our board's web page.

Here's the text of the Power Point slide:

If the defender along the free throw lane line breaks the plane of the free throw line, a violation has occurred. Use delayed violation signal. Hold whistle until free throw is completed. If free throw is made, ignore violation; if free throw is missed, award a replacement free throw. (9-1-3-B)

Here's the explanation given by our local interpreter:

The ruling was a NFHS response received by IAABO.

Anybody hear anything new regarding this ruling?

BigCat Mon Nov 10, 2014 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 941915)
The NFHS included a statement in the casebook 9.1 Comment ... "Once a free throw starts, no player occupying a marked lane space may enter or leave such space or break with either foot the vertical plane of any lane or lane-space boundary until the ball touches the ring or backboard or until the free throw ends..."

The corrections NFHS posted to their website last week stated...
"Page 70, 9.1 COMMENT: Sentence 2 should read: Once a free throw begins no player may enter or leave a marked lane space or break with either foot the vertical plane of a free throw lane line or lane space boundary prior to the release of the ball by the free thrower. Delete last sentence.

So, NFHS has stated it, maybe not as obvious as they could have.

Billy's clarification is dealing with the Free Throw Line. This clarification makes the comment consistent with the change back to "on release." I don't see it addressing breaking the plane of the free throw line Billy is talking about.

I haven't heard anything in Illinois/nfhs on the free throw line. I agree with Rich1 on calling a foul if it is one etc.

Billy, hopefully your state will deal with the ignoring contact unless intentional etc. maybe they just thought violation usually equals dead ball and ignore all other contact. If there's common foul blocking out the free throw shooter it be nice if you could call it.

01-34066

bob jenkins Mon Nov 10, 2014 08:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 943262)
Here's the text of the Power Point slide:

If the defender along the free throw lane line breaks the plane of the free throw line, a violation has occurred. Use delayed violation signal. Hold whistle until free throw is completed. If free throw is made, ignore violation; if free throw is missed, award a replacement free throw. (9-1-3-B)

Here's the explanation given by our local interpreter:

The ruling was a NFHS response received by IAABO.

Anybody hear anything new regarding this ruling?

We heard (by inference) just the opposite. The rule interpreter gave an example of breaking the FT line plane and boxing out the shooter and we needed to watch for a foul. Never said anything about it being a violation.

BillyMac Mon Nov 10, 2014 04:27pm

Blurred Lines ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 943269)
The rule interpreter gave an example of breaking the FT line plane and boxing out the shooter and we needed to watch for a foul.

And this text was on the following Power Point slide:

If there is contact on the free throw shooter by the defender who breaks the free throw line plane, ignore contact unless intentional. (9-1-3-B)


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