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Kansas Ref Tue Aug 26, 2014 02:09pm

Four-man crew
 
Was just at a camp over the wknd, a clinician told us that currently under experimentation / consideration is the use of a four man crew--yes 4 refs on the floor during a game. The reasons this clinician proffered were: 1) to employ more refs for games, 2) to improve floor coverage.
Are 8 eyes better than 6 eyes? Are 6 eyes better than 4 eyes?
Presumably this would apply to upper level games of college and pro.

Raymond Tue Aug 26, 2014 02:23pm

One day I am going to give up officiating, going to a 4-man crew might be that day.

Welpe Tue Aug 26, 2014 02:35pm

Two referees and two linesmen? :confused:

Freddy Wed Aug 27, 2014 01:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 939399)
Was just at a camp over the wknd, a clinician told us that currently under experimentation / consideration is the use of a four man crew--yes 4 refs on the floor during a game. The reasons this clinician proffered were: 1) to employ more refs for games, 2) to improve floor coverage.
Are 8 eyes better than 6 eyes? Are 6 eyes better than 4 eyes?
Presumably this would apply to upper level games of college and pro.

I would have to change my tag line below...

jeremy341a Wed Aug 27, 2014 09:24am

What about modified 3 man to keep the aging veterans in the game? One official under each basket and one at half court. Coverage is two man on each end with no transitioning by the officials needed. The trailer official at half would not have to move very far. The officials switch on fouls so that not one official spends the game under one teams basket.

SoInZebra Wed Aug 27, 2014 09:36am

I was at a camp this summer and had a chance to hear Don Vaden speak and he talked about the 4-man crew. He indicated that he wanted to experiment in the D-League and see if it could work. His primary intent was to be able to better officiate diagonal drive to the basket that cross through primary coverage areas and he felt that a dividend would be a larger staff. He also said it was his job to improve officiating and trying out new things prevents stagnation.

johnny d Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 939454)
What about modified 3 man to keep the aging veterans in the game?

Or maybe someone should tell them the game has passed them by, they cant keep up, and that they should retire.

Raymond Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoInZebra (Post 939457)
I was at a camp this summer and had a chance to hear Don Vaden speak and he talked about the 4-man crew. He indicated that he wanted to experiment in the D-League and see if it could work. His primary intent was to be able to better officiate diagonal drive to the basket that cross through primary coverage areas and he felt that a dividend would be a larger staff. He also said it was his job to improve officiating and trying out new things prevents stagnation.

I have a lot of respect for Donnie Vaden, and his son and I are on a couple of staffs together, but this is something I'm not fond of at all.

No way I see this implemented at the amateur levels. There are plenty of ADs and coaches who still think the 3rd official is unnecessary, no way they'll go to 4.

And more doesn't always mean better, there is a point where the marginal costs of an input outweigh the marginal benefits.

brainbrian Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:25am

This sounds like a post I would read on April 1st. But I am curious how the court position and rotations would work for this.

Would you have 2 leads and 2 trails?
Would you have 1 lead, 2 centers, and a trail?
Some other crazy configuration?

Rich Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 939462)
Or maybe someone should tell them the game has passed them by, they cant keep up, and that they should retire.

You know, I hire varsity officials for 21 high schools now -- and I'd rather have a veteran official that may have lost a step but has good people skills and good judgment than someone who doesn't but runs like a gazelle.

But you're probably right -- if someone can't keep up in a 3-person game on an 84' floor, it is time to think about another hobby.

AremRed Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 939474)
You know, I hire varsity officials for 21 high schools now -- and I'd rather have a veteran official that may have lost a step but has good people skills and good judgment than someone who doesn't but runs like a gazelle.

Just do it like soccer -- have three floor refs making the calls and a fourth official taking care of the benches, coaches, timing errors, and fixing that score parents are always yelling about.

Adam Wed Aug 27, 2014 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 939403)
Two referees and two linesmen? :confused:

I'm thinking two wings, and R and a U.

johnny d Wed Aug 27, 2014 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 939474)
You know, I hire varsity officials for 21 high schools now -- and I'd rather have a veteran official that may have lost a step but has good people skills and good judgment than someone who doesn't but runs like a gazelle.


You are right, these type of guys (bold and underline above) can still be an asset. I was referring to the guys who have lost multiple steps, to the point that no amount of people skills or experience can make up for the fact that they are constantly out of position.

Rich Wed Aug 27, 2014 04:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 939481)
You are right, these type of guys (bold and underline above) can still be an asset. I was referring to the guys who have lost multiple steps, to the point that no amount of people skills or experience can make up for the fact that they are constantly out of position.

The problem is that I heard this same argument when we pushed to go 3-person -- if people can't keep up 2-person, they should just get out.

Funny, it's not the coaches that want to push people out most of the time.

BillyMac Wed Aug 27, 2014 05:07pm

How Many More Travel Games Today ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 939454)
One official under each basket and one at half court.

Hey. I've seen some guys work like this, but in a two man game, without the third official at half court.


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