legal move or not?
 

A1 receives a pass with both feet on the floor, jumps and lands simultaneously on both feet and then releases a shot. Is this a legal move or is it a travel?

Traveling.

MTD, Sr.

You are seriously overthinking this one...LOL

Is this one of those "squaring up" moves that shooters do all the time?

Does it matter? When is it ever legal to have possession of the ball, jump off 2 feet and land with the ball still in your possession?

NBE. :rolleyes:

You mean NCAA? That is the place I see that move the most not called. Heck it hardly gets called in HS games that I see as well.

Peace

Hey... if it is not being called in HS, then I am not going to be 'That Guy' and call it an illegal move.:eek: As long as it looks like a good athletic move then it must be legal.:D

Even though A1 has not established a pivot foot after catching the ball, when A1 jumps off both feet, one of his feet must be considered a pivot foot and if either returns to the floor while A1 is still in control of the ball, then a traveling violation has occurred.

This principle is detailed in the NFHS Casebook ruling below.

4.44.3 SITUATION B:

A1 receives the ball with both feet off the floor and he/she lands simultaneously on both feet without establishing a pivot foot. A1 then jumps off both feet in an attempt to try for goal, but realizing the shot may be blocked, A1 drops the ball to the floor and dribbles.

RULING: A1 has traveled as one foot must be considered to be the pivot and must be on the floor when the ball is released to start a dribble. The fact that no pivot foot had been established does not alter this ruling.

The NFHS specifically instructed officials to call this a traveling violation about five seasons ago.

NFHS BASKETBALL 2009-10 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. TRAVELING. The traveling rule has not changed; however, the committee is still concerned that the rule is not being properly enforced. Consequently, offensive players are gaining a tremendous advantage. Areas of specific concern are: the spin move, the step-through move, the jump stop, perimeter shooters taking an extra “hop” prior to releasing the try and ball handlers lifting the pivot foot prior to releasing the ball on the dribble. The key to determining the legality of those moves is to first find the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits, a traveling violation has occurred. Officials must know the rule, find the pivot foot and improve call accuracy; coaches must demand that players execute this skill properly, especially in practice; players must continue to develop this basic skill and practice performing legal moves.

Travel

Legal? No. Ignored if trifling? Yes.

Do you call traveling in your D1 games when a player does this very scenario when squaring up to shoot?

I don't know what 'ignored if trifling' means.

Ignored if no advantage.

Would you let shooters catch the ball and move their pivot foot wherever they wanted to without dribbling?

I am certainly not a D1 official and will not speak for what one of them will actually do, but this was addressed by John Adams a few times over the years and he feels it should be called. I have never heard him make the suggestion that it matters if there is an advantage. I would agree with you if it is not obvious or we are splitting hairs, but this is usually pretty obvious to see and should be called IMO.

Peace

As Andy Dufresne says: "How can you be so obtuse?"

Can't say I've seen players catching the ball with BOTH feet on the floor, then jump and land with the ball at any level with any regularity.

Were you asking me my ruling on this question?:

One would have to be very obtuse for not knowing the obvious answer. ;)

"Trifling" is a soccer officiating term. I've never heard it in basketball.

Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

Move as described in OP = travel.

Complicating factors in games.

Player can have two feet on the floor and hop as they complete the initial catch without travelling ie. Determining when control is established.

Player can have one foot on the floor, hop onto two and shoot it without traveling. ie. Determining when control is established and if only 1 foot was on the floor making it a jump stop - but that now cannot pivot.

It is more than a soccer term. It is a social term too. ;)

Peace

I guess the basketball equivalent is "incidental".

I think they're mutually exclusive. "Trifiling" can and usually does involve the severity of contact, but hard contact can be "incidental." I've used "incidental" in soccer without any corrections (though that doesn't mean I'm right), but the only sport I've ever heard "trifling" in was soccer.

Just the same, this isn't even about contact. It's a about travelling, and hopping on two feet is cut and dry.

Traveling Is The Toughest Call ...
 

I believe that, in the play described above, said player can also legally jump off both feet to shoot the ball. N'est-ce pas?

By rule, there are no incidental violations.

I thought the very first post after the Thread Starting Post was the most concise and accurate post of this thread. :D

MTD, Sr.

Except that it is not supported BY RULE. This is only a violation due to a Case Play ruling. I believe that is the point of the OP.

Sure it is...

That establishes that when a foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot. it doesn't say ONLY one foot. So, if a player jumps from two feet, one foot has been lifted and the other is the pivot. You could say that the pivot is the last one to break contact with the floor (and it really will be one or the other if you look close enough). However, it doesn't really matter which was lifted first on a jump because the result is the same either way.

Then, Article 3 kicks in...

Camron,
By your reasoning a player could never execute a legal jump stop. That's not a practical argument for basketball. Officials deem both feet of a player to either land or leave the court simultaneously quite frequently during games.
So the point is that if a player has not yet established a pivot (either by landing or jumping with both feet simultaneously), then nothing which you have posted applies.

Not so....the phrase above was under the section covering both feet being on the floor when the ball is caught. In such a case, a jump stop is not an option. Thus, the lifting of a foot establishes a pivot.