NFHS Rules Changes Predictions/Rumors/Desires

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. The players along the lane are all subject to the same restrictions, regardless of offense or defense. Unneeded physical contact? If it creates a disadvantage, call a foul. It's that simple. As for rebounding, the defense still has four players along the lane as opposed to the offense's two (three including the shooter). The defense has all the "advantage" it needs.

With the current, outdated rule, the likelihood of a lane violation being a big factor in the outcome of a game is too large. There's no reason not to change this rule.

Absolutely, change that rule. The offensive free throw shooter has the biggest advantage the way the rule is right now. The guys standing next to him cannot get in the lane fast enough to box him out. I hate that. Plus, the release is a much easier thing to judge, than hitting the rim. Guys on the lane line get away with going in a foot before the ball hits the rim. It's too close for a ref to call, but not too close for an advantage to be gained.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Absolutely, change that rule. The offensive free throw shooter has the biggest advantage the way the rule is right now. The guys standing next to him cannot get in the lane fast enough to box him out. I hate that. Plus, the release is a much easier thing to judge, than hitting the rim. Guys on the lane line get away with going in a foot before the ball hits the rim. It's too close for a ref to call, but not too close for an advantage to be gained.

You say the shooter has the biggest advantage? I think I see a shooter get the rebound maybe 3-4 times a year. Doesn't seem like a problem...the guys on the lane are 4 feet closer, they're fine.

It is a lot easier to judge the rim. You know exactly when it is going to happen. Guys are going in early only because no one calls it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

The players along the lane are all subject to the same restrictions, regardless of offense or defense.

Same restrictions? How about their location on the lane, defense inside, offense farther out. The "inside" position is always a big advantage in rebounding.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You say the shooter has the biggest advantage?

Of course he does, but not in rebounding. He gets to take a fifteen foot shot, taking up to ten seconds to release it, with no defenders in his face trying to block his shot. Of course, that didn't help me in high school. I had an easier time making a put back with a defender than making an uncontested free throw.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Same restrictions? How about their location on the lane, defense inside, offense farther out. The "inside" position is always a big advantage in rebounding.

Ergo the defense has all the advantage it needs, so why are we concerned that changing the rule to the release would be "unfair" for the defense?

The other thing is the violation isn't called in half the high school games I watch. Might as well just make the change.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Ergo the defense has all the advantage it needs, so why are we concerned that changing the rule to the release would be "unfair" for the defense?

The other thing is the violation isn't called in half the high school games I watch. Might as well just make the change.

I totally agree.

And I call this violation, but I seem like the only one that does. The rule was stupid to begin with. Why are we worried about this and act like the game is so rough in this area? All it does is cause other issues IMO.

Peace

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You say the shooter has the biggest advantage? I think I see a shooter get the rebound maybe 3-4 times a year. Doesn't seem like a problem...the guys on the lane are 4 feet closer, they're fine.

It is a lot easier to judge the rim. You know exactly when it is going to happen. Guys are going in early only because no one calls it.

The shooter has an advantage in rebounding, in that when you wait for the hit, it is impossible to get across the lane in time to box him out (if the shooter makes an effort). When you go on the release, and the shooter has to wait for the hit, it is easy to box him out.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

The shooter has an advantage in rebounding, in that when you wait for the hit, it is impossible to get across the lane in time to box him out (if the shooter makes an effort).

I can see your point, but like Camron Rust stated earlier, it only happens, maybe, three, or four, times a year, i.e., free throw shooter getting own rebound (I think Camron Rust's numbers are a little too high), so I doubt that the NFHS sees this as a problem.

[Rich]

Neither way is a problem as long as officials are willing to:

(1) Call lane violations and

(2) Call rebounding fouls.

Wouldn't change my life either way, to be honest.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can see your point, but like Camron Rust stated earlier, it only happens, maybe, three, or four, times a year, i.e., free throw shooter getting own rebound (I think Camron Rust's numbers are a little too high), so I doubt that the NFHS sees this as a problem.

Full disclosure - I'm still bitter about the shooter getting a key rebound on us on a purposely missed free throw. It was a perfect miss - bounced hard back to him.

Also - I agree what other people said. Call the violations. I teach my kids to go in when the ball's about a foot away. We never get called. I also teach them, if the opponent goes in early - u go too. Because, it so rarely gets called.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

... the shooter getting a key rebound on us on a purposely missed free throw. It was a perfect miss, bounced hard back to him.

I've seen this tried several times as a player, coach, and official, and I've never actually seen it work. Usually the shooter violates by missing the rim and just hits the backboard.

[RefCT]

Thanks for clarifying what I was going to ask in a follow-up question Nevadaref.

Billy and Adam - I was not aware what the rule actually read, so thanks for pointing that out. I never even considered the change in rule (as stated in my OP) until a very veteran Varsity official (state finals guy) had the situation occur in a V game after my JV game and he said he knew the sub shouldn't have come in but let him anyway (it was a taunting call after a made basket, no PF). I then saw the same situation with other very veteran officials a couple other times.

Even though I only lurk most of the time, following this forum has expanded my knowledge tremendously and I thank you all. It is time I hit the books again this summer and really study on what the rules are saying.

Thanks everyone for the continued conversations. It is always giving me the "how would I handle the situation" question and it is interesting to see the different interpretations.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

The shooter has an advantage in rebounding, in that when you wait for the hit, it is impossible to get across the lane in time to box him out (if the shooter makes an effort). When you go on the release, and the shooter has to wait for the hit, it is easy to box him out.

If it is an advantage, they certainly are not taking advantage of it more. It is so rare that you go most of the season and not see this situation. Usually the guys closer are in a little early anyway and this does not even give the shooter a chance.

I just feel that we have a rule that is so inconsistently applied by official and we really need to just go back to what other levels do. It was never that rough in the first place. It is no different than any other rebounding situation.

Peace

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I want to address the shot clock issue:
I work in California ,which uses the shot clock with both boys and girls games, and am privileged to work with some very good table crews out here.The operation of the shot clock is very rarely an issue in our league.AD's here know it is important to provide highly qualified table staff and everybody does their best to make sure that all contests are staffed with qualified personnel.
I think the biggest issue is making sure each game has a qualified scorekeeper on it instead of someone who just gets the game 10 minutes beforehand.At my school I handle 3 of 4 games on a game day.I handle JV Boys,Varsity Girls,and Varsity Boys while a student handles JV Girls.I train any student scorekeepers myself and emphasize professionalism with them from the moment they start with me.I visited one school this year that had an 8 year old boy attempt to be the official scorer on varsity (they use the JV girls coaches wife for both JV games). When the officials saw this during pre-game warmups they transferred official scorer powers to me for both varsity games.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

I want to address the shot clock issue:
I work in California ,which uses the shot clock with both boys and girls games, and am privileged to work with some very good table crews out here.The operation of the shot clock is very rarely an issue in our league.AD's here know it is important to provide highly qualified table staff and everybody does their best to make sure that all contests are staffed with qualified personnel.
I think the biggest issue is making sure each game has a qualified scorekeeper on it instead of someone who just gets the game 10 minutes beforehand.At my school I handle 3 of 4 games on a game day.I handle JV Boys,Varsity Girls,and Varsity Boys while a student handles JV Girls.I train any student scorekeepers myself and emphasize professionalism with them from the moment they start with me.I visited one school this year that had an 8 year old boy attempt to be the official scorer on varsity (they use the JV girls coaches wife for both JV games). When the officials saw this during pre-game warmups they transferred official scorer powers to me for both varsity games.

SoCal, you are truly the exception and not the rule. If I could fly you out here for my games I would. I just don't think most coaches or ADs at the HS level in NYC care unless a mistake affects them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches running around five minutes before tip looking for a kid to run the game and/or shot-clock. Then when something goes wrong they want to get mad at the kid (or me and my partner).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

SoCal, you are truly the exception and not the rule. If I could fly you out here for my games I would. I just don't think most coaches or ADs at the HS level in NYC care unless a mistake affects them. I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches running around five minutes before tip looking for a kid to run the game and/or shot-clock. Then when something goes wrong they want to get mad at the kid (or me and my partner).

I will say this, around here, training wouldn't be an issue for 95% of the HS games. Most schools use a staff member (willingness unknown) for table duties during the games. Some might be a problem, but not many. I still think this is an unnecessary expense with very little benefit.