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Zoochy Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:53am

Jump Ball
 
A1 is the only one to tip the jump ball. The ball touches the playing court and A1 is the first one to obtain player control. Legal or Violation. If it is a violation, then what?

Rob1968 Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931620)
A1 is the only one to tip the jump ball. The ball touches the playing court and A1 is the first one to obtain player control. Legal or Violation. If it is a violation, then what?

6-3-8 tells us that the restriction of the jumper catching the ball / obtaining player control (6-3-7 c) ends when the ball touches the floor. Thus, in your scenario, A1 is legally allowed to catch the ball /obtain player control.

bainsey Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931620)
A1 is the only one to tip the jump ball.

How can you have a tie up with only one person?

Zoochy Sun Apr 13, 2014 01:05pm

Reread the OP. It is a jump ball to start the game or OT.

bainsey Sun Apr 13, 2014 01:27pm

Ah, I read "tip" as "tie up." Thanks.

BillyMac Sun Apr 13, 2014 01:47pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
6-3-8: The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the touched
ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a basket or
backboard. NOTE: During a jump ball, a jumper is not required to face his/her own basket, provided
he/she is in the proper half of the center restraining circle. The jumper is also not required
to jump and attempt to touch the tossed ball. However, if neither jumper touches the ball
it should be tossed again with both jumpers being ordered to jump and try to touch the
ball.

Adam Sun Apr 13, 2014 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 931629)
Ah, I read "tip" as "tie up." Thanks.

Is this an accent thing? My grandmother used to say "syrup" as "sip." Is this similar?

Camron Rust Sun Apr 13, 2014 05:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 931629)
Ah, I read "tip" as "tie up." Thanks.

That would be spelled ti'p.

Zoochy Mon Apr 14, 2014 03:15pm

The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.:D

Camron Rust Mon Apr 14, 2014 03:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931727)
The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.:D

Yep...met plenty of those. Just smile. ;)

Nevadaref Mon Apr 14, 2014 06:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931727)
The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.:D

Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

Zoochy Mon Apr 14, 2014 09:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 931742)
Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

I did not go that far with him. He wasn't understanding 6-3-7 or 6-3-8.
As Camron stated.... I just smiled and walked away. ;)

APG Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 931742)
Is he one of those people who says "controlled tap"? Ugh

I assume that you showed him these rule:
Rule 4, Sec 12
ART. 5

Team control does not exist during a jump ball or the touching of a rebound, but is re-established when a player secures control.

ART. 6

Neither team control nor player control exists during a dead ball, a jump ball or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

How about this Case Book play:
4.12 COMMENT:

A player is in control when the player is holding or *dribbling a live ball, but team control includes passing activity. When a team secures control, that team continues to be in control until the ball is in flight on a try or tap for goal, or an opponent has secured control or the ball has become dead. This has an influence on rules such as team-control fouls, three-seconds and frontcourt/backcourt. No team is in control while the ball is dead, during a jump ball, after the ball has left the hand on a try or tap for goal, nor during the period which follows any of these acts while the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

What does this have to do with the play and question in hand? It would seem the pertinent rules needed are only those dealing with restrictions on the jump ball...and then when they end.

Nevadaref Tue Apr 15, 2014 03:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 931762)
What does this have to do with the play and question in hand? It would seem the pertinent rules needed are only those dealing with restrictions on the jump ball...and then when they end.

You are likely only considering that the official penalized the player for catching the jump ball.
I also considered that the official may have penalized him for either traveling or an illegal dribble. The rules above state that there is no player control while tapping a jump ball, so neither of those violations would be possible either.

onetime1 Tue Oct 07, 2014 08:47am

So if the jumper just grabs the toss instead of tipping to a teammate it is a violation. What happens to the arrow?

bob jenkins Tue Oct 07, 2014 09:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 941219)
So if the jumper just grabs the toss instead of tipping to a teammate it is a violation. What happens to the arrow?

See 6.4.1C and E, and the related rules.

JetMetFan Tue Oct 07, 2014 09:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931620)
A1 is the only one to tip the jump ball. The ball touches the playing court and A1 is the first one to obtain player control. Legal or Violation. If it is a violation, then what?

I actually had this scenario for the first time (at least that I can remember) over the summer. Happily I remembered the rule but I was talking to myself about the scenario for the first few minutes of the game.

Raymond Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 931727)
The strange part after having the discussion with this referee. Showing him the rule and these posts. He still states that the OP is a violation.
They should know by now, NOT to question my rules knowledge.:D

This is why I am choosy about with whom I have rules conversations.

I don't like talking to brick walls.

Raymond Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 941225)
I actually had this scenario for the first time (at least that I can remember) over the summer. Happily I remembered the rule but I was talking to myself about the scenario for the first few minutes of the game.

I know the rule b/c I kicked it early in my HS career.

AremRed Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 941225)
I actually had this scenario for the first time (at least that I can remember) over the summer. Happily I remembered the rule but I was talking to myself about the scenario for the first few minutes of the game.

I this in back-to-back AAU games this summer. I called neither of them, the "R" was on point. Also had a stolen tip that day.

I know what you mean about talking to yourself. Whenever I have a weird play it kinda distracts me for the next few minutes. I need to improve my focus on the next play. That's the only one that really matters.

Adam Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 941225)
I actually had this scenario for the first time (at least that I can remember) over the summer. Happily I remembered the rule but I was talking to myself about the scenario for the first few minutes of the game.

I whistled this dead the first time I saw it, but immediately went with IW since I knew the rule. Coach questioned me on it, but accepted my response that it's legal once it hits the floor.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 941230)
This is why I am choosy about with whom I have rules conversations.

I don't like talking to brick walls.


People always wonder why I talk to myself. It is the only way I can have an intelligent conversation. :p

MTD, Sr.

dsqrddgd909 Tue Oct 07, 2014 03:08pm

+1 Mark!

BillyMac Tue Oct 07, 2014 05:34pm

No More Double Jeopardy ... ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 941219)
What happens to the arrow?

Lose the ball, and win the arrow, but it wasn't always this way, the rule changed about ten years ago. Before that an illegal possession was still considered a possession. I guess the NFHS came to its senses and considered the double jeopardy penalty to be too harsh.

BillyMac Wed Oct 08, 2014 06:24am

Let The Games Begin ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 941276)
Lose the ball, and win the arrow.

And, if the timekeeper starts the game clock, in error, when the tossed ball is grabbed, then be sure to reset the game clock to 8:00 because, by rule, it was an illegal touch.

5-9-2: If play is started or resumed by a jump, the clock shall be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

6-3-7-C: Neither jumper shall: Catch the jump ball.

9-6: A player shall not violate any provision of the jump ball (6-3).

I know that many on the Forum will disagree with that, so, let the games begin.

bob jenkins Wed Oct 08, 2014 07:38am

99.9% of the time, the ball is tipped and then caught.

I've heard of, but never seen, a jumper go up with two hands and grab the ball.


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