NC: Kentucky vs UConn

Camron Rust

Nevadaref wrote
The argument is simple. If the ball wasn't in his left hand when he was fouled and that is the hand the player eventually shoots it with, then he couldn't have been in the act of shooting FOR THAT TRY at the time of the foul.
To put it in question form: how could he have already begun the try when the ball wasn't even in the hand that he used to shoot?

If an official is going to consider that continuous motion, then the player should be permitted to execute a crossover dribble between the foul and the try. What difference does it make if the ball bounces on the floor or not in the switch between one hand and the other?

I've never seen anything that even remotely suggests what you're suggesting....that a try that starts in one hand can't be shifted to the other. The attempt to score begins when that start to go up with the ball and continues until they release the "try", lose the ball, or come down with it. Whatever specific movement they do with the ball after they start going up to score is of no consequence.

Raymond

JRutledge wrote
The taller white guy is not DeRosa. I will look at the replay to be sure, but I am pretty positive that was not DeRosa.

BTW, Doug Shows was an official I saw at a UConn at DePaul game last season. Shows T's up Ollie for being out of the coaching box. UConn won in kind of a blowout, but I never forgot him after that afternoon game I attended.

Peace

Shows tossed the ball. He is far more muscular than Derosa, plus Shows always palms the ball in one hand to show off 😀 . He's a pretty big dude.

Raymond

Camron Rust wrote
Not sure I've ever heard that interpretation before. If it is all in one effort/motion, I view it as continuous.

Just b/c you view it one way doesn't mean it's correct, or what's interpreted elsewhere is incorrect.

I know I saw Harrison go to through lane in the 2nd half, get bumped, then pass the ball off. And I know I saw the Crew Chief indicate a "pass off" and give Harrison bonus free throws instead of 2 shots.

rockyroad

Any chance we can get video of the play Nevadaref is talking about?? I didn't see it, and am having a hard time picturing what is being discussed...did the player jump to shoot right handed, get hit, and then shift ball to left hand and shoot before landing?

dahoopref

2nd half at 18:05

Attempted dunk by UConn player is blocked by UK player but continues to the rim. UConn player appears to still have ball in hand to continue the dunk, ball hits the rim, but dunk is not completed.

The crew goes to the monitor and resets the shot clock.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a NCAA video bulletin last season about this play and to NOT reset the shot clock? 😕

johnny d

dahoopref wrote
2nd half at 18:05

Attempted dunk by UConn player is blocked by UK player but continues to the rim. UConn player appears to still have ball in hand to continue the dunk, ball hits the rim, but dunk is not completed.

The crew goes to the monitor and resets the shot clock.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a NCAA video bulletin last season about this play and to NOT reset the shot clock? :confused:

Correct, if the ball does not leave the shooters hand, it is not considered a shot clock attempt and the shot clock should not be reset.

twocentsworth

JRutledge wrote
That wasn't DeRosa.

Peace

Doug Shows tossed (I believe he was actually U2)
Joe DeRosa was U1
Verne Harris started in U2 position (believe he was R and let Shows toss)

twocentsworth

johnny d wrote
Correct, if the ball does not leave the shooters hand, it is not considered a shot clock attempt and the shot clock should not be reset.

The NBA rule on shot clock resets is what the NCAA-M should go to.....ball hits rim (doesn't matter how/why) = reset. Currently in NCAA-M, clock reset ONLY when legal shot hits rim.

dahoopref

johnny d wrote
Correct, if the ball does not leave the shooters hand, it is not considered a shot clock attempt and the shot clock should not be reset.

Thanks for re-affirming my memory.

jeremy341a

What are the thoughts in the game last night when the UCONN player picked off a pass and landed on a pretty much stationary Kentucky player who was waiting to receive the pass? It was ruled a block. Did anyone else see that play and know about when it took place. I believe it was in the second half.

Raymond

dahoopref wrote
2nd half at 18:05

Attempted dunk by UConn player is blocked by UK player but continues to the rim. UConn player appears to still have ball in hand to continue the dunk, ball hits the rim, but dunk is not completed.

The crew goes to the monitor and resets the shot clock.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a NCAA video bulletin last season about this play and to NOT reset the shot clock? :confused:

You're are correct about the interp, but in the play in question here, the ball did leave A1's hand and hit the rim.

JRutledge

It was not only a good call, but a great call. As a matter of fact he came forward towards the UConn player (Boatright) and contacted the Kentucky player (Harrison) that was airborne. Replay showed that clearly and was a good foul by Shows. Harrison never gave Boatright a place to land and was not in a legal position when Boatright went airborne. Replay showed how good a call this was. It was hard to tell live and the angle of the camera.

Peace

Multiple Sports

C'mon Jeremy, show us what you got. You went from a ms video, to rehashing something from last year, to an NBA video in the past few weeks.....

Show us your skills !!!!!

jeremy341a

Multiple Sports wrote
C'mon Jeremy, show us what you got. You went from a ms video, to rehashing something from last year, to an NBA video in the past few weeks.....

Show us your skills !!!!!

I can't post videos. I have been banned by the public due to my poor past performance.

Camron Rust

BadNewsRef wrote
Just b/c you view it one way doesn't mean it's correct, or what's interpreted elsewhere is incorrect.

I know I saw Harrison go to through lane in the 2nd half, get bumped, then pass the ball off. And I know I saw the Crew Chief indicate a "pass off" and give Harrison bonus free throws instead of 2 shots.

True, but have you ever heard anyone say that shifting the ball from one hand to the other ends the try?

And I agreed with the pass off call. I don't think he was in the shooting motion on that play...not because he ultimately passed but because he was never in a shooting motion.

Camron Rust

I thought it was the correct call. Defender caught the ball and became offense, Harrison moved towards him while he was airborne. If the defender hadn't caught the ball and it made it to Harrison, the foul would have been the other way since the onus on obtaining a legal position is on the "defense".

dahoopref

BadNewsRef wrote
You're are correct about the interp, but in the play in question here, the ball did leave A1's hand and hit the rim.

That's why I'd like to see the video of this play; I wasn't sure if it did.

JetMetFan

Guys -

I'll get to these tomorrow. It took a bit to find some of them (ahem... 🙄 ) and now it's time for me to hit the hay. I think APG got dinged by the NCAA video police so he's off the grid for a bit.

All_Heart

You can watch the game here: Championship Game. The play occurs with 2.9 seconds left in the 1st half.

The switching of hands appeared to occur primarily b/c of the backboard being in the way of shooting with his right hand.

How would you rule on these plays?:

The Micheal Jordan shot Video where he starts with one hand and switches to the other. Lets say he got fouled after starting his motion but before he switches hands are we not scoring it?

B1 fouls A1 as he is jumping to shoot a layup. B2 is defending the basket and forces A1 to switch hands and shoot a reverse layup.

This isn't applicable to whether or not we would rule a shooting foul but for fun 😉 if you were the person in charge of inputting the stats at the scorers table would you record 1 made field goal on 2 attempts in Jordan's play?

In my opinion the rules support this as being a shooting foul but I think that its good Nevada brings the question up. Anytime we can think critically/differently it helps us in truly understanding the rules. 🙂

JRutledge

Are we talking about the Randall play?

I do not see anything unusual or that would make me not call a shooting foul.

Peace

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