The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Wisconsin / Kentucky (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97685-wisconsin-kentucky.html)

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 08:27pm
Wisconsin / Kentucky
 
Block call at about 14:35 or so. Looked like an easy PC on replay.

Followed, of course, by a bit of idiocy from the announcers.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 08:37pm
Also at 11:53 (first half) followed by a pretty overt display of anger from the defender.

Johnny Ringo Sat Apr 05, 2014 08:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930620)
Also at 11:53 (first half) followed by a pretty overt display of anger from the defender.
Thought that was an easy PC call.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 08:53pm
Review for potential FF1, 5:10 left in 1st half.

Dead ball contact technical foul called.

Did they give Wisconsin the ball table side?

AKOFL Sat Apr 05, 2014 08:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930622)
Review for potential FF1, 5:10 left in 1st half.

Dead ball contact technical foul called.

Did they give Wisconsin the ball table side?
was that administered correctly?

JRutledge Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930622)
Review for potential FF1, 5:10 left in 1st half.

Dead ball contact technical foul called.

Did they give Wisconsin the ball table side?
It appeared they did.

Peace

JRutledge Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 930623)
was that administered correctly?
Yes. It is not a POI administration. Dead ball contact fouls are treated the same as a NF T.

Peace

AKOFL Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 930625)
Yes. It is not a POI administration. Dead ball contact fouls are treated the same as a NF T.

Peace
thanks. so you can upgrade to a F1, F2, or Tech upon review?

JRutledge Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 930626)
thanks. so you can upgrade to a F1, F2, or Tech upon review?
You can always upgrade a foul for contact if it fits the definition of F1 or F2. But honestly, it does not matter unless you are going to eject the player for the contact. Dead ball contact plays really do not have a bigger penalty alone.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 930627)
You can always upgrade a foul for contact if it fits the definition of F1 or F2. But honestly, it does not matter unless you are going to eject the player for the contact. Dead ball contact plays really do not have a bigger penalty alone.
Two things are different.

1. Anyone can shoot the FTs.
2. Another T now disqualifies him.

JRutledge Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930630)
Two things are different.

1. Anyone can shoot the FTs.
2. Another T now disqualifies him.
You are right. I was only trying to reference what you call the foul. Any dead ball contact foul is a T. You could have called it based on FF1 or FF2, but they still would have been Ts.

Peace

Nevadaref Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:47pm
1. Little known NCAA rule permits the team to inbound either table side or opposite table following a technical foul, which is not POI.
2. The very rare example of offensive GT just occurred, but was not called, at 16:35 of the 2nd half.
3. Crew was rather poor on block/charge decision in the first half. Two or three fouls called blocks which were PCs, imo.

bballref3966 Sat Apr 05, 2014 09:49pm
Goaltending?
 
Close goaltending no-call at 16:36 in second half. Would love to get another look at it. Was on its downward flight, appeared to be above the ring, but not sure it had the possibility of entering the basket.

Nevadaref Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:04pm
Someone please explain to me what Pat Adams is seeing on these blocking calls.

canuckrefguy Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:10pm
Wow, today's colour commentators are making Billy Packer look good.

Nevadaref Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:11pm
5:22 left #44 from Wisconsin gets hosed on a foul call.

bballref3966 Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930642)
5:22 left #44 from Wisconsin gets hosed on a foul call.
Was that the arm bar call on the strip of the ball? Looked like the right call to me at first glance...

Greg Anthony's critique of the officiating is getting old.

Nevadaref Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 930643)
Was that the arm bar call on the strip of the ball? Looked like the right call to me at first glance...

Greg Anthony's critique of the officiating is getting old.
No, the next one. Although I didn't care for the whistle on that strip either.

AKOFL Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930644)
No, the next one. Although I didn't care for the whistle on that strip either.
there was a few could in a row there that could have been more patient and had no whistle. imo

blindzebra Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:24pm
Bigtime travel on the foul on the 3 pt shot at 15 seconds.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra (Post 930647)
Bigtime travel on the foul on the 3 pt shot at 15 seconds.
Big time? Not really.

bballref3966 Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra (Post 930647)
Bigtime travel on the foul on the 3 pt shot at 15 seconds.
Absolutely got away with one there.

canuckrefguy Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930644)
No, the next one. Although I didn't care for the whistle on that strip either.
Good call. Dribbler had a clear path to the hoop. Defender moves into the dribbler with forearm to the chest, knocking him off his route and enabling the strip. Agree with y'all about the other couple, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra (Post 930647)
Bigtime travel on the foul on the 3 pt shot at 15 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930648)
Big time? Not really.
+1

Camron Rust Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930642)
5:22 left #44 from Wisconsin gets hosed on a foul call.
He got beat, stepped and leaned sideways into the shooter. I thought that was an easy block call.

Camron Rust Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930648)
Big time? Not really.
I agree. It might have been there but I didn't see an obvious one.

Camron Rust Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 930650)
Good call. Dribbler had a clear path to the hoop. Defender moves into the dribbler with forearm to the chest, knocking him off his route and enabling the strip. Agree with y'all about the other couple, though.
Agree. The strip never happens without the push.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930639)
Someone please explain to me what Pat Adams is seeing on these blocking calls.
Was he the one who called all three of those bad blocks against Jackson?

Raymond Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra (Post 930647)
Bigtime travel on the foul on the 3 pt shot at 15 seconds.
Agree completely.

canuckrefguy Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:56pm
Good grief - that Harrison is money.

blindzebra Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930648)
Big time? Not really.
Two steps to his left that allowed him to A) release the ball and B) jump into the defender is absolutely a big time violation.

It used to be an automatic call everywhere but the NBA, sadly that is not the case anymore.

canuckrefguy Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra (Post 930658)
Two steps to his left that allowed him to A) release the ball and B) jump into the defender is absolutely a big time violation.

It used to be an automatic call everywhere but the NBA, sadly that is not the case anymore.
Just watching the replay. Not seeing that at all. Here's the play-by-play off my PVR:

#12 receives pass and lands right foot - left foot (legal)
Dribbles once, picks up dribble, lands with right foot barely ahead of the left foot
Shot fakes - defender goes airborne (nothing)
Shooter moves right foot while jumping

I'm thinking official on the play gives #12 the two-foot jump stop off the dribble, and therefore no travel.

Technically, you could say travel - but it's a ticky-tack call on that kind of play.

Adam Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 930659)
Just watching the replay. Not seeing that at all. Here's the play-by-play off my PVR:

#12 receives pass and lands right foot - left foot (legal)
Dribbles once, picks up dribble, lands with right foot barely ahead of the left foot
Shot fakes - defender goes airborne (nothing)
Shooter moves right foot while jumping

I'm thinking official on the play gives #12 the two-foot stop off the dribble, and therefore no travel.

Technically, you could say travel - but it's a ticky-tack call on that kind of play.
This is what I saw. It's not the sort of travel you're going to pick up when you're watching for impact you know is coming because you were watching the defender.

Camron Rust Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 930654)
Was he the one who called all three of those bad blocks against Jackson?
Or the one against Lee when Kaminsky slammed into him?

There were a number of head-scratcher blocks on both sides.

just another ref Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:05am
But, luckily we had a detailed, thorough, scientific analysis of the whole thing.

"I don't see how you can guard anybody in the post if they're not going to let you wrestle a little bit."

Rex Chapman

Nevadaref Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 930657)
Good grief - that Harrison is money.
So that's how Kentucky recruited those twins. :eek:

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930635)
1. Little known NCAA rule permits the team to inbound either table side or opposite table following a technical foul, which is not POI.2. The very rare example of offensive GT just occurred, but was not called, at 16:35 of the 2nd half.
3. Crew was rather poor on block/charge decision in the first half. Two or three fouls called blocks which were PCs, imo.

In the "Ancient Days" the offended team had the choice of which Sideline at the Division Line to take the Throw-in for both boys'/girls' H.S. and men's/women's college. A number of years ago (no, I am not going to climb up into the attic, LOL!), the NFHS changed the rule to put the ball in play at the Division Line opposite the Table. But the NCAA did not adopt the change.

MTD, Sr.

Nevadaref Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 930667)
In the "Ancient Days" the offended team had the choice of which Sideline at the Division Line to take the Throw-in for both boys'/girls' H.S. and men's/women's college. A number of years ago (no, I am not going to climb up into the attic, LOL!), the NFHS changed the rule to put the ball in play at the Division Line opposite the Table. But the NCAA did not adopt the change.

MTD, Sr.
And now all the youngin's have the rest of the story!
Thanks for the post. :)

Camron Rust Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 930636)
Close goaltending no-call at 16:36 in second half. Would love to get another look at it. Was on its downward flight, appeared to be above the ring, but not sure it had the possibility of entering the basket.
I thought it was a good call. Unless it is grossly off (it wasn't), I don't think any official would rule that it has no chance of going in.

EDIT: My comments were about the other GT was called.

AremRed Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 930664)
Or the one against Lee when Kaminsky slammed into him?

There were a number of head-scratcher blocks on both sides.
He was just being consistent with the blocking calls they made earlier. I knew it was gonna be called a block as soon as I heard the whistle.

Camron Rust Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 930670)
He was just being consistent with the blocking calls they made earlier. I knew it was gonna be called a block as soon as I heard the whistle.
If Kominsky had run in to the basket stanchion, they would have called it for a block. He should have gone to Duke.

mutantducky Sun Apr 06, 2014 03:58am
just want to say I dislike Jay Bilas. Homer for the big schools, really going for Kentucky.
that is all. :rolleyes:
stuck in an elevator with Joe Buck, Troy Aikmen, and Jay. shudders :(

Nevadaref Sun Apr 06, 2014 05:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 930669)
I thought it was a good call. Unless it is grossly off (it wasn't), I don't think any official would rule that it has no chance of going in.
Except the opposite of your comment is what the officials did.
There was no whistle on the play and Kentucky was permitted to score.
Thus the decision must have been that the ball didn't have a chance to go in.

OKREF Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 930659)
Just watching the replay. Not seeing that at all. Here's the play-by-play off my PVR:

#12 receives pass and lands right foot - left foot (legal)
Dribbles once, picks up dribble, lands with right foot barely ahead of the left foot
Shot fakes - defender goes airborne (nothing)
Shooter moves right foot while jumping

I'm thinking official on the play gives #12 the two-foot jump stop off the dribble, and therefore no travel.
Technically, you could say travel - but it's a ticky-tack call on that kind of play.


It is an easy travel to get. I'm not going out on a limb here, but that will rarely get called at this level, but clearly it is a travel.

Camron Rust Sun Apr 06, 2014 01:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 930676)
Except the opposite of your comment is what the officials did.
There was no whistle on the play and Kentucky was permitted to score.
This the decision must have been that the ball didn't have a chance to go in.
OK, that is a different play. I was thinking of the one where UK was on defense and swatted the ball just after the peak....and they called it.

Without going back to video at the moment, I think they one you may be talking about is the one where the ball was coming up short, perhaps not so short that it couldn't go in, and was tipped in.

Can't be GT in the NCAA, by rule....

Quote:
Rule 4
Section 34. Goaltending
Art. 1. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met:
So, there is no restriction on the offense touching the ball on the downward flight. The NCAA rules makes it so that we don't have to differentiate between alley-oops right at the rim and shots that get tipped in on their way down.

NFHS, however, doesn't make the distinction between offense or defense.

Sharpshooternes Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 930694)
OK, that is a different play. I was thinking of the one where UK was on defense and swatted the ball just after the peak....and they called it.

Without going back to video at the moment, I think they one you may be talking about is the one where the ball was coming up short, perhaps not so short that it couldn't go in, and was tipped in.

Can't be GT in the NCAA, by rule....



So, there is no restriction on the offense touching the ball on the downward flight. The NCAA rules makes it so that we don't have to differentiate between alley-oops right at the rim and shots that get tipped in on their way down.

NFHS, however, doesn't make the distinction between offense or defense.
Wait. So in HS the offense can commit goaltending? Do you have a video example?

JRutledge Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 930888)
Wait. So in HS the offense can commit goaltending? Do you have a video example?
Yes they can happen. But it is rare you ever see it or it is advocated to be called.

Peace

Nevadaref Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:11am
I have to wonder if the NCAA wording was changed. I'll have to do some checking.
Otherwise, it seems terribly unfair that a defensive player cannot touch such a ball, but an offensive player may. Where's the balance?

Camron Rust Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 930888)
Wait. So in HS the offense can commit goaltending? Do you have a video example?
I've never seen it, but it could happen.

APG Tue Apr 08, 2014 01:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes (Post 930888)
Wait. So in HS the offense can commit goaltending? Do you have a video example?
Not high school...this happened last year in an NBA game...Noah was correctly called for goaltending:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/NKg7O9fmQYo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AremRed Tue Apr 08, 2014 01:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 930894)
Not high school...this happened last year in an NBA game...Noah was correctly called for goaltending
I dunno man, that color guy sounded pretty convincing.

Nevadaref Tue Apr 08, 2014 01:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 930894)
Not high school...this happened last year in an NBA game...Noah was correctly called for goaltending:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/NKg7O9fmQYo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Don't you just love how the guys getting paid to announce the game don't know the difference between BI and GT and keep talking about how the player touched the ball while it was outside of the cylinder? :(

Btw I don't know much about NBA rules, but if this video has any credence, then per the info in this thread there is offensive GT in both Hs and the NBA, but not in the NCAA. That would be strange.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1