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-   -   What does being the "R" mean to you? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/9766-what-does-being-r-mean-you.html)

Damian Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:46am

During our summer meeting, one break out discussion was raising your game to a higher level. We had a spirited discussion on what it means to be the "R". Some ideas were that you knew everything happening around the court. Others were that you helped your partners raise their level.

With all of the collective knowledge on this forum, I would like to hear what some of you have to say about this.

mick Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by Damian
During our summer meeting, one break out discussion was raising your game to a higher level. We had a spirited discussion on what it means to be the "R". Some ideas were that you knew everything happening around the court. Others were that you helped your partners raise their level.

With all of the collective knowledge on this forum, I would like to hear what some of you have to say about this.


With most of my partners, being the R generally means being the person that runs the pre-game, leads the captains' meeting, enters information in the book, checks the book, and tosses/administers the ball.

As an umpire, I do what the ref pre-games.
mick

Andy Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:16am

This is a very difficult answer to put into words.

The best example that I can think of is one that Chuck shared from his camp experience this summer.

If, for some reason, the crew is not "clicking", the "R" is the one who steps up and gets things going in the right direction.

w_sohl Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
With most of my partners, being the R generally means being the person that runs the pre-game, leads the captains' meeting, enters information in the book, checks the book, and tosses/administers the ball.

As an umpire, I do what the ref pre-games.
mick

After the toss, it really means nothing unless there is a disagreement between officials in which case the "R" has the final say. Other than that you are all one and the same.

DownTownTonyBrown Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:19am

Depends
 
Obviously if it is a smooth running game with veteran officials that work together often then the R's duties are no more than what Mick has suggested... act the part of the leader and toss the jump ball.

In a highly contested game or a game with a veteran R and a somewhat Rookie U, the role of the R is significantly different. He must do more than act the part of the leader... he must lead. He does this by having an in depth pregame with you, discussing idiosyncracies of the teams/coaches, what to expect, how the officiating team of you and him should respond, proper mechanics, where your attention should be focused, particular plays/acts that you should watch for, giving praise during your game to boost your confidence, etc.

This is how the R accomodates your abilities and hopefully raises you to a higher performance level. The R's goal should not only be to provide a well officiated game to the teams but also to help you have the best game you've ever had... to stick up for, help, reinforce, and guide you to that higher level.

Each game and each partner is different and you may not always get this from the R. Perhaps you will have to provide this kind of encouragement to your partners.

Back In The Saddle Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:47am

Aside from the specified duties, to me "being the R" means that you can be relied upon to get the job done right. You can be trusted to keep things running smoothly, control the game when you have to, deal with the stress and unusual things that happen, and ensure your crew work well together. It means that when something needs to be done, you step up and do it. It means that when you step on the floor the coaches and players know what to expect from you.

My $0.02

mick Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy

If, for some reason, the crew is not "clicking", the "R" is the one who steps up and gets things going in the right direction.

Andy,
If you are an umpire and I am R, come to be or go to the other umpire and get it straightened out.
R,U,U,R I don't care who makes it right.
If something needs to be discussed, R, U, U, R, discuss it.
I like to keep things easy.

If the R wants something changed, and an umpire refuses, what difference does it make?

mick
<HR>
I saw the R put his pants on the same way we did.

Mlancaster Tue Aug 19, 2003 01:07pm

Until the "R" makes more money than the "U1" and U2", the designation means nothing after the ball is tossed.
Even if I am scheduled as the "R", I will often pass this title on to a younger official that I am working with to give him or her some experience running the pre-game and tossing the ball.

DownTownTonyBrown Tue Aug 19, 2003 03:47pm

Technically these other guys are correct. I have ascribed the role of veteran to the assignment of R. Any particular game may not be that way. The rookie may be assigned as R and the veteran as U.

In my earlier post, replace all my "R"s with "veteran" and you'll get the pitcture of what I was saying... which isn't an answer to your question... but rather one that I made up!

JRutledge Tue Aug 19, 2003 04:07pm

All it means................
 
is I get the opportunity to set the tone before I throw the ball up. Other than that, it is meaningless.

Peace

devdog69 Tue Aug 19, 2003 04:36pm

Your discussions from camp are actually pertaining to the idea of a 'lead' official, someone who can be counted on to bring a crew together in the pregame, lead them through the tough conference game, and handle any situation that may arise. These officials are often assigned to be the 'R' in conferences where the assignor does think that the referee has more responsibility than just tossing the ball up to start the game. In such conferences where I work, if something gets mucked up, it's the R who gets the call and shoulders much of the responsibility.

JRutledge Tue Aug 19, 2003 05:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
Your discussions from camp are actually pertaining to the idea of a 'lead' official, someone who can be counted on to bring a crew together in the pregame, lead them through the tough conference game, and handle any situation that may arise. These officials are often assigned to be the 'R' in conferences where the assignor does think that the referee has more responsibility than just tossing the ball up to start the game. In such conferences where I work, if something gets mucked up, it's the R who gets the call and shoulders much of the responsibility.
It is an honor in may ways to be assigned the R, but it only says what your assignor thinks about you as an official. After that, it means nothing. Because if I am the R and my partner messes up or something screwy happens, I am not always in a position to clean it up. Especially when judgment is at stake. Unlike football, the Referee cannot clean up everything his/her partners do. We cannot get together after every call and think about what we are going to do. So unless we have a major rules problem (which almost never happens in basketball games), what can I do as an R to smooth it over?

Just an opinion.

Peace

devdog69 Tue Aug 19, 2003 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
Your discussions from camp are actually pertaining to the idea of a 'lead' official, someone who can be counted on to bring a crew together in the pregame, lead them through the tough conference game, and handle any situation that may arise. These officials are often assigned to be the 'R' in conferences where the assignor does think that the referee has more responsibility than just tossing the ball up to start the game. In such conferences where I work, if something gets mucked up, it's the R who gets the call and shoulders much of the responsibility.
It is an honor in may ways to be assigned the R, but it only says what your assignor thinks about you as an official. After that, it means nothing. Because if I am the R and my partner messes up or something screwy happens, I am not always in a position to clean it up. Especially when judgment is at stake. Unlike football, the Referee cannot clean up everything his/her partners do. We cannot get together after every call and think about what we are going to do. So unless we have a major rules problem (which almost never happens in basketball games), what can I do as an R to smooth it over?

Just an opinion.

Peace

That may be true in your area, Jeff. I am just saying that I do have a couple of assignors that will expect you, as the R, to step up and say 'yeah WE screwed it up' even if it was your partner who did it, the opinion is you were not a good enough leader to help this weaker official rise to the needed level. Right or wrong, this is the way they find out who they can trust on the floor in the big games.

Oh, and btw, in response to Downtowntonybrown's earlier comment, in at least one conference that I work in the R does get paid more than the U1 or U2.

[Edited by devdog69 on Aug 19th, 2003 at 05:40 PM]

TriggerMN Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:16pm

When we work college games, the R is in charge of running through the pre-game.

JRutledge Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69


That may be true in your area, Jeff. I am just saying that I do have a couple of assignors that will expect you, as the R, to step up and say 'yeah WE screwed it up' even if it was your partner who did it, the opinion is you were not a good enough leader to help this weaker official rise to the needed level. Right or wrong, this is the way they find out who they can trust on the floor in the big games.

Oh, and btw, in response to Downtowntonybrown's earlier comment, in at least one conference that I work in the R does get paid more than the U1 or U2.


It is finally nice for you to point out that people do different things in different areas. Because in my area, if you are a weaker official, you will not work the game. You are all there (at least the HS level) there for a reason. If they feel someone has to carry another official, then they will not be there. Especially when there is a so-called "bigger game."

For the record, there are many college assignors that do not even assign who is what during those games.

Peace

Tim Roden Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:54pm

A two headed monster cannot function. The R is the head of the crew. He is the one who sets the tone for the game by leading pregame discussions with table, coaches, players and most importantly the pregame meeting. He speaks for the crew. When there is a problem, such as a fight, during the game, he brings the crew together to figure out what went on and leads the crew to a decision as to who gets ejected, do we count the bucket, etc.

mick Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Roden
A two headed monster cannot function. The R is the head of the crew. He is the one who sets the tone for the game by leading pregame discussions with table, coaches, players and most importantly the pregame meeting. He speaks for the crew. When there is a problem, such as a fight, during the game, he brings the crew together to figure out what went on and leads the crew to a decision as to who gets ejected, do we count the bucket, etc.
I agree; that is the theory.
In my world, we concur. ;)

brianp134 Wed Aug 20, 2003 09:24am

In a high level JV or Varsity game the "R" to me is the person who is in charge for that game. He or She is the person who is ultimately in charge, if something goes wrong, all officials are accountable for their actions. In lower level games (i.e rec leagues) there's not much difference between officials.

Andy Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:55am

I went to Dave Libbey's camp several years ago. It was held at the University of San Diego in three different gyms. The campers were provided with very vague directions to each of the gyms. Libbey's comment was:

"If you're an "R", you will find the gym!"

mick Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by brianp134
In a high level JV or Varsity game the "R" to me is the person who is in charge for that game. He or She is the person who is ultimately in charge, if something goes wrong, all officials are accountable for their actions.....
brian134,
If we are umpires, it is our responsibility to be as smart as the referee so that "his" final say is appropriately submitted.
mick

brianp134 Wed Aug 20, 2003 01:31pm

I agree 100%. Each official has equal input, but the "R" is the one who will make the final determination if officials disagree.

Camron Rust Wed Aug 20, 2003 02:01pm

Being the R---as asked at a camp.

It is not related to the game duties at all.

It IS related to being willing to step out and take care of business. Being in charge (even if not the designated "R") of your areas. Know the game and what is going on outside your area. When something is messed up (scorebook, clock, etc.), having the information to resolve it. Taking responsibility when things go wrong.

It's not "duties", it attitude and accountability.

JRutledge Wed Aug 20, 2003 02:25pm

When does that happen?
 
Out of all the years that I have officiated (not that it is that long), I cannot think of a time this even takes place. When does an umpire have to have the R make a final decision for them?

Because even if there was a ruling that was needed, usually the Us do it themselves or we all come to some kind of conclusion together. At least that is what takes place with the people I work with. Because as an R, I might not know completely what happen or did not see the play, so it is up to my partners to make a decision. All I am going to do is back them. And if asked later, I will say, "that is what they saw, I was watching something else."

Peace

zebraman Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:01am

If my partner is experienced and comfortable, being the R doesn't mean much at all.

If my partner is working one of his first V games, it means that I tell him to just call the game on the floor and I'll handle all the peripheral stuff including the coaches and anything "weird."

That's about it.

Z

tomegun Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:32pm

I just had to chime in on this one. First of all I have officiated for 9 years so this is my first post but I'm not new to this.
Camron was the closest to me. The R is the person(s) on a crew who is willing to make the call that is F'd up but is absolutely correct. Some games the R will stand out and some games he or she will not. Every game is unique and sometimes a crew can breeze through and it doesn't matter who the R is. On the other hand some games need to have a strong R during the layup line! It is rules knowledge, game awareness, judgement and most importantly the courage and know-how to use the proper tool in your "tool bag" at the proper time. If you watch a lot of college games you will notice that there are some officials that are always U1s and U2s. There is a reason for that. The thing a lot of supervisors say is "I'm looking for Rs." Getting to this level of understanding is a beautiful thing.
It can happen like this: Camper A has a good camp with every game consitent and well officiated. Camper B is not consistent in any of his games and has a crazy coach for his final game. During that game Camper B throws out the coach and it is well timed and well deserved. Camper B gets hired and Camper A doesn't. Camper B had the opportunity to show that at the right time he will handle business.

I think that's more than 2 cents worth. I owe you.

AK ref SE Mon Aug 25, 2003 03:18pm

I was asked once by a scorekeeper and timer. Who is the R and who is the U. and why does it matter. My response to them was. The person who can throw the best jump ball to start the game is the R. I agree that the game starts before the jump.....But what most people see is that first toss. They will judge you from that point forward. The R is in my opinion the gauge at what the general public will view your skill from the opening toss to the finish.

JRutledge Mon Aug 25, 2003 05:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I was asked once by a scorekeeper and timer. Who is the R and who is the U.
The fact that they asked that question, suggest that in the bigger picture it means nothing to most people involved. Because in the NCAA, the R does not have to be the one that throws the ball up anymore. After the jump ball at the beginning of the game, the game is not going to be blamed on one official that happens to be the R in the game. I have never listened to talk radio and heard them blame "the Referee" for screwing up the game. They blame the "officials," not just one guy or gal unless they made what is precieved as a bad call. The Referee in a football game is given more credit or blame if things are not done the right way, then they ever are in a basketball game. And that is because the Referee has to report all fouls and unusual situations that take place. In basketball we are all equal.

Just an opinion.

Peace

tomegun Tue Aug 26, 2003 05:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by AK ref SE
I was asked once by a scorekeeper and timer. Who is the R and who is the U. and why does it matter. My response to them was. The person who can throw the best jump ball to start the game is the R. I agree that the game starts before the jump.....But what most people see is that first toss. They will judge you from that point forward. The R is in my opinion the gauge at what the general public will view your skill from the opening toss to the finish.
I think we are judged much earlier than the toss. In High School Basketball we are judged from the time we come into the gym. If we are watching a game before ours we are being watched. If we have the first game we are being watched. We are really being watched once we've taken the floor for our game.

Rich Tue Aug 26, 2003 07:06am

This last post brings up a good point.

I usually arrive in the second quarter of the JV game (no, not if I'm working the JV game). The fans KNOW you are the officials cause (1) You don't look like you belong there and (2) Who else dresses up to sit in the bleachers at a high school basketball game?

So once I'm at the school, I try to remember to behave the right way. Sure my partner and I will talk and watch the opening game. But I try to act if all eyes are on me -- cause they might be.

Be nice to the people you interact with from the moment you walk in the door. And remember to be nice to the subvarsity officials, too. Their game was probably harder to work than yours will be :)

This post was horribly off-topic. Sorry.

Rich


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