Wisconsin-Arizona Player Control Foul (Video)

[fortmoney]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

I am surprised that you would feel this way. By rule, and you - more than anyone on this forum - could easily be called "Mr Rule Book", he was illegally contacted by a defender who moved INTO the dribbler (interrupting the Rythm, Speed, Balance, and Quickness).

Btw....Tony Greene is the official who ran directly I front of Roy Williams who was signaling and yelling for a timeout ....AND DID NOTHING.

Simply put, Tony has not had a season worthy of a Final Four assignment (or Elite Eight, for that matter).

I disagree with both of your takes

to accuse him of purposely ignoring a timeout request - who would do that? Those games are extremely loud and with that much at stake, who wouldn't be extremely locked in to the action. We've all had those situations where we either don't hear the coach, or can't tell what he wants (yelling "side-out" or something). I'm not sure what you have against Tony personally, but he's a hell of an official. And a lot of people must agree with me, otherwise he would not be calling an elite8 game between a 1 and 2.

come on, take off your tin foil hat

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

I disagree with both of your takes

to accuse him of purposely ignoring a timeout request - who would do that? Those games are extremely loud and with that much at stake, who wouldn't be extremely locked in to the action. We've all had those situations where we either don't hear the coach, or can't tell what he wants (yelling "side-out" or something). I'm not sure what you have against Tony personally, but he's a hell of an official. And a lot of people must agree with me, otherwise he would not be calling an elite8 game between a 1 and 2.

come on, take off your tin foil hat

Watch the video of that play - even Ray Charles. An see Tony Greene running right past Coach Williams. The REAL problem is that Tony AND his partners didn't look at the UNC bench immediately after ISU scored. How can you possibly advance to the NCAA tournament as an official and NOT have game awareness that instinctively causes u to look at the bench immediately after a last second basket. It's so simple!!! It's unbelievable that not only didn't he look...HE RAN RIGHT PAST A COACH WHO SIGNALED AND CALLED FOR IT....

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Great call if only you overlook the illegal sefensive contact that was creted by the defender moving INTO the path of the ball handler.

Which would have been called if he hadn't pushed off

Originally Posted by tomegun

I would like to see the play without being critical of the official or giving the official a pass because of who he is - just look at the play for what it is. When I looked at it initially, I thought the defender was moving into the offensive player. If it happened that way, and I was the offensive player, I would push off too, especially if I needed to get such a critical shot off. However, if the defender was legal, the push off should have been called.

"Coach, I was ready to call block until your guy pushed off".

If the defensive player does not initiate illegal contact, by rule it cannot be a defensive foul.

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Watch the video of that play - even Ray Charles. An see Tony Greene running right past Coach Williams. The REAL problem is that Tony AND his partners didn't look at the UNC bench immediately after ISU scored. How can you possibly advance to the NCAA tournament as an official and NOT have game awareness that instinctively causes u to look at the bench immediately after a last second basket. It's so simple!!! It's unbelievable that not only didn't he look...HE RAN RIGHT PAST A COACH WHO SIGNALED AND CALLED FOR IT....

Boy are you going to look like an idiot when he's crew chief in the semis, or in the final

[Adam]

Reminder/warning:
criticizing a play is ok

broadly demeaning an official and his abilities is not

[APG]

[Adam]

After watching the replay, I see a defender with LGP moving laterally and towards the end line as the dribbler closes the gap. I like that call.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by APG

If you all will harken back to last year when Seth Davis ran that "block or charge" quiz on his blog in conjunction with NCAA Director of Officiating John Adams...Adams focused on plays EXACTLY like this - and commented that officials were calling it wrong much of the time.

This was a great call. And it's why Tony Greene has been in the national championship game three or four times.

[tomegun]

I looked at the video, looked up the definition of lateral (just to make sure I'm not crazy), looked at the video again and asked my wife to look at the video. If someone can move laterally while their body is moving in the direction they are facing, and they take one step in that direction prior to contact, then yes I agree the player was moving laterally.

This play could make the NCAA video for next season. Tough play in a tough situation.

I purposely didn't mention the official or past accomplishments as that has no bearing on a discussion about the call to me.

[APG]

I've got a foul on the defender for moving forward into the dribbler prior to the push off by the dribbler.

[blindzebra]

Block happened first.

The defender was draped over the offensive player to the point his arm pit was touching his head.

[Adam]

Looking at the defender's feet in frame-by-frame, it really looks to me like he's moving towards the end line with each step, and not towards the dribbler. The dribbler is closing the distance, but that doesn't mean the defender is moving "towards the dribbler".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Watch the video of that play - even Ray Charles. An see Tony Greene running right past Coach Williams. The REAL problem is that Tony AND his partners didn't look at the UNC bench immediately after ISU scored. How can you possibly advance to the NCAA tournament as an official and NOT have game awareness that instinctively causes u to look at the bench immediately after a last second basket. It's so simple!!! It's unbelievable that not only didn't he look...HE RAN RIGHT PAST A COACH WHO SIGNALED AND CALLED FOR IT....

You've come back to the forum for the expressed purpose of ripping an official working the tourney in a personal way. Either knock it off...or go away.

[tomegun]

Canuck, that isn't contact in the first pic? From the first pic to the second it looks like the defender moves laterally; this is after he moves forward into the offensive player.

I can't focus...why would a boxer lick another boxer's chest during a weigh in?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Canuck, that isn't contact in the first pic? From the first pic to the second it looks like the defender moves laterally; this is after he moves forward into the offensive player.

That was my point - the defender hadn't actually knocked him off course. Before that can happen, dribbler pushes off (image 2). If he just continues on his path, he's going to the line, maybe for an and-one.

Like I said, bang/bang play. But I still think the right call. By the closest of margins.

[tomegun]

I would like to see the play without being critical of the official or giving the official a pass because of who he is - just look at the play for what it is. When I looked at it initially, I thought the defender was moving into the offensive player. If it happened that way, and I was the offensive player, I would push off too, especially if I needed to get such a critical shot off. However, if the defender was legal, the push off should have been called.

I think sometimes we lose site of the fact that even the best officials make mistakes. Again, I would like to see the play again, but I want to look at it for what it is.

If this play was called on the defense, what would people think?
If nothing was called on this play, what would people think?