Flagrant foul on Lebron (Video)
 

Good catch by the official IMO. Lebron was fouled hard earlier a couple of times before this play.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/I59MqXbsXI8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Very good catch.

Peace

Good call.

I'd still like to see another angle though to see how much the elbow was outside of his natural motion.

Travel?

yep.......but it is one that is never called at this level

Probably because it's not actually a travel at that level.

What's the nba travel difference by rule?

He caught it with his right foot on the floor. Then went left, right, left. I thought (in the book) that would be a travel at any level.

Well given that 1) the officials are not as strict as you on when the "gather" has taken place, and 2) the NBA rule allows "two steps", this could easily be not traveling.

Only saw the SportsCenter highlights of this game. I did not watch it.
There is no doubt in my mind that Lebron purposely led with his elbow as he was upset with the earlier hard fouls that he had received.
That said, the officials need to eject any player, even the league's MVP and star, who resorts to dangerous tactics such as this.

I want to know what the Lead was thinking. He had a whistle and put his arm up extra strong, but deferred to Monty in the Slot.

Jeremy you figured it out !!!!
 

Guess you realized that if you were going to post videos, the you should post NBA videos, as the quality and clarity are much better than some of those ms videos you were posting last week......

That's right bc if it ain't in 1080p there is no way anyone could learn from the conversation. ;)

If this is a HS game, after Hibbert gets up with help from teammates and then falls back down, do you have him removed and evaluated for a concussion?

I did in a HS game this year.

At a minimum 480 with a close up of the action.

Evaluated? If you think a player is concussed he's done for the game.

I personally do not see this as flagrant. Where is he supposed to put his elbows in this move? His pocket.

Technically, LeBron traveled after he ended his dribble, but that was only something that I was able to tell on the slowed down baseline camera view. This is a nit that isn't picked at this level.

The lead (Mark Ayotte) probably had a foul on Hibbert for jumping forward and toward LeBron. If it wasn't for LeBron's elbow, I would agree with the call. Great get from Monty McCutchen in the slot.

I will try to adhere to the forum guidelines in the future. I did notice that on a lot of videos if the quality it low you can click on the gear on youtube and select a higher quality.

Tell them to pound sand, jeremy. If they don't like your videos, they can always just not watch them.

This wasn't a natural elbow movement, for one. It looked pretty apparent to me that it was intentional.

For me, in a HS game, it's at minimum an intentional (automatic, actually, by rule). If I sense even the slightest bit of intent, he's done.

Dead wrong by NFHS rules.


3-3-8

Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional. (See NFHS Suggested Guidelines for Management of Concussion in Appendix A on page 76.)

"Mr. Dead Wrong" NY state doesn't allow a professional to clear a player once an official disqualifies them for symptoms of a concussion. We can confer with a professional, if one is available, before we make the assessment. But once made the kid is done until he is evaluated and cleared by the school.

NY state doesn't deal with notes during the game. Once a decision is made its final and not reversible by anyone.

They are not dead wrong. Any state can make a rule more restrictive. NY State is just saying they do not allow that time to take place during the game or get approval. And this rule appears to be more restrictive in that state.

Peace

Your original post mentions nothing about NY, and Altor only mentioned "in high school." Does Altor work in NY?

Nevada is right, by NFHS rule, your correction of Altor was incorrect.

Let's go through this sequence again.
I have no idea where Altor is located. Therefore, the default assumption is that he is inquiring about NFHS rules.

This statement does not have any qualifier, such as "in my state" or "in NY state"...
Thus it looks as if the poster is providing a general answer for everyone.

I didn't write that the poster or his particular state was incorrect in what they may do, rather I very specifically noted that the statement was wrong "by NFHS rules" and included the NFHS citation.
Had either of the previous posters asked for or noted a specific state regulation, I wouldn't have bothered to post. As it was the response was clearly misleading and confusing to anyone not familiar with his specific area.

Gotcha Nevada. ;)

Peace

Altor works in NY? Because your answer is dead wrong for my state also.

I should have specified that in my state concussion type symptoms are treated differently. I guess my response to Nevada was based on a previous bias based on his past pedantic retorts and comments. In all honestly I should have qualified my basis for judgement but a common argumentative and patronizing leading response could have been the trigger for my sarcasm.

Either way there are many cases where the NFHS isn't the holy grail, it is regulated state by state.

LOL, it's an epidemic this week.

Don't Tread on Me
 

There is actually a case play dealing with a scenario where the ref sends the player off for concussion like symptoms and then a few minutes later said player reports at the table to enter game. The interp says we should let him in, assuming he has been properly cleared by team medical personnel as it is ultimately there responsibility to do so. (The previous statements paraphrase the material mentioned and are not intended to illicit pages of off topic banter about the "letter of the law" nor is it commentary on individual states application there of. They are simply provided for informational purposes.)

Does this case predate the recent change to the concussion rule?

Guidelines are not rules
 

The interp is from this current years casebook under 2.8.5 and basically says that if a player who was removed by an official for symptoms of concussion later reports to the scorers table to reenter that we should allow him in. It is the coach's/team's responsibility to obtain medical clearance and we shall assume they have done so without the need to verify it. Of course, all of this is moot if your state has stricter rules.

The rules (2-8-5 & 3-3-8) say we have the authority to remove the player until cleared but say nothing about how the player should be cleared. No authority to refuse the player entry is mentioned. Appendix B does go into great detail about concussion orocedures but these are guidelines, not rules, and seem to me to be directed more at coaches/schools than us.

By the way, in Texas, the UIL mandates that schools follow guidelines that are identical to these.

In the game where I had a player removed, there was no trainer on site. So I informed game management of my ruling, and had the coach tried to re-insert his player into the game, I would have had the book annotated that the HC was responsible for medical clearance.

Sounds reasonable even if not required. Any coach who tried that would be foolish since not only would he be risking further damage to his player, he could also face huge liabilities, probably void any professional insurance he has to cover himself if he gets sued, and has just violated school policies in most school districts as well as violated the law in states like Texas.

A trainer or other medical staff (EMT, Dr.) is required at every upper level game in TX and a lot of schools are using the new pre & post baseline testing that is done now. Not to bad for a state once known for all day practices in 110° weather with no water breaks. Oh, and "don't forget to take your salt pills, boys!"

I would consider it even before the falling back down. If I had a clear look at the elbow to the chin and the way Hibbert dropped to the floor, that would be enough for me. Of course in my state, the NFHS rules apply so the player could be cleared by a trainer and return. No downside to being extra cautious. Inform the coach and if the player returns, assume that they have been evaluated and cleared.

To be fair Hibbert falls down all the time, often for no reason. It's his modus operandi.

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. I was wondering if this was a case that is held over from previous seasons.