End of game review

just another ref

End of NC/Iowa St game. The clock started late on the throw-in after the made basket. The timeout was finally recognized with a few tenths left. Then after recognizing the late start, the net result was game over. I get that and don't have a problem. But, if instead of calling the timeout, the guy had released a successful shot at the same point (or with even less time on the clock) would the review to check the release have gone back through the whole final possession and ultimately canceled the shot?

surely not

Matt

just another ref wrote
End of NC/Iowa St game. The clock started late on the throw-in after the made basket. The timeout was finally recognized with a few tenths left. Then after recognizing the late start, the net result was game over. I get that and don't have a problem. But, if instead of calling the timeout, the guy had released a successful shot at the same point (or with even less time on the clock) would the review to check the release have gone back through the whole final possession and ultimately canceled the shot?

surely not

Yes, I think they would have.

Raymond

Yes, a review would have been triggered and the timing error corrected using a stop watch, and the shot would have been cancelled.

ballgame99

It didn't end up mattering, but I thought it was strange in the Kansas/Stanford game, KU hits a 3 with 15 seconds to go and immediately calls a timeout. But the crew decided they needed to review the clock and decided the clock should read 15.1 instead of 15, so they give Kansas their timeout back??!! That seems like a bit much.

Dexter555

ballgame99 wrote
It didn't end up mattering, but I thought it was strange in the Kansas/Stanford game, KU hits a 3 with 15 seconds to go and immediately calls a timeout. But the crew decided they needed to review the clock and decided the clock should read 15.1 instead of 15, so they give Kansas their timeout back??!! That seems like a bit much.

Agreed--I've felt like there's been far too much watching the backs of the officials' heads while reviewing monitors to adjust the clock after what seems like every stoppage of play.

just another ref

So, if the clock is late starting on the play, (less than a second late, I think?) player comes up the floor, watching the clock with no way of knowing that it is not correct, times his shot perfectly and releases it with .2 showing, only to have it wiped out?

This would be criminal.

MD Longhorn

Dexter555 wrote
Agreed--I've felt like there's been far too much watching the backs of the officials' heads while reviewing monitors to adjust the clock after what seems like every stoppage of play.

Part of me wonders if these conferences are taking a little longer than they need to solely as the officials' way of quietly trying to push for PTS.

Rooster

Another question about this play: At what point should the clock have been stopped after the Iowa State basket? I realize it stopped at 1.6, but if we're getting things down to the tenths, it seemed a little slow in stopping. I know a goal occurs when the ball passes through the goal but does that include the net? BTW, I'm not an NC or Iowa State fan in the least.

JMF? (Sometimes it sux to have a talent, eh?) We should figure out a way to compensate ya for all the time you put into this...

bob jenkins

Rooster wrote
Another question about this play: At what point should the clock have been stopped after the Iowa State basket? I realize it stopped at 1.6, but if we're getting things down to the tenths, it seemed a little slow in stopping. I know a goal occurs when the ball passes through the goal but does that include the net?

Yes -- it's when the "top" of the ball gets through the bottom of the net.

[deleted]

MD Longhorn wrote
Part of me wonders if these conferences are taking a little longer than they need to solely as the officials' way of quietly trying to push for PTS.

Now that's a conspiracy theory I can get behind!

Rooster

bob jenkins wrote
Yes -- it's when the "top" of the ball gets through the bottom of the net.

Not that I don't believe you (not even close...) but where in the book would a fella such as myself find that? I looked in Rule 4 under Goal in the NCAA book and in the NFHS book I see nothing except 5-1-1. Both read the same.

Nevadaref

Rooster wrote
Not that I don't believe you (not even close...) but where in the book would a fella such as myself find that? I looked in Rule 4 under Goal in the NCAA book and in the NFHS book I see nothing except 5-1-1. Both read the same.

Look at the definition of the basket.

[deleted]

Nevadaref wrote
Look at the definition of the basket.

And remember the net is considered part of the basket.

bob jenkins

And a Goal is made when the ball passes through the basket (or remains in), and the clock is stopped when a Goal is made (in the last 59.9 seconds)

Adam

just another ref wrote
So, if the clock is late starting on the play, (less than a second late, I think?) player comes up the floor, watching the clock with no way of knowing that it is not correct, times his shot perfectly and releases it with .2 showing, only to have it wiped out?

This would be criminal.

I agree.

Rooster

bob jenkins wrote
And a Goal is made when the ball passes through the basket (or remains in), and the clock is stopped when a Goal is made (in the last 59.9 seconds)

Right. Got that.
NFHS 5-5-1
NCAA Rule 4, Section 33. Goal

A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through;

bob jenkins wrote
Yes -- it's when the "top" of the ball gets through the bottom of the net.

What I'm looking for is the part about the top of the ball getting through the bottom of the net...

And to respectfully demonstrate my due diligence and/or awareness of the rules:

Nevadaref wrote
Look at the definition of the basket.

NFHS: 4-5-1
A team's own basket is the one into which its players try to throw or tap the ball.

AremRed wrote
And remember the net is considered part of the basket.

NFHS: 1-10-1
NCAA: Rule 1, Section 13, Article 1

Raymond

just another ref wrote
So, if the clock is late starting on the play, (less than a second late, I think?) player comes up the floor, watching the clock with no way of knowing that it is not correct, times his shot perfectly and releases it with .2 showing, only to have it wiped out?

This would be criminal.

I think John Adams addressed this during his segment on the post game show, but I wasn't able to hear what he said.

Nevadaref

This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

Rooster

Nevadaref wrote
This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

Maybe you didn't see this...

Rooster wrote
NFHS: 1-10-1
NCAA: Rule 1, Section 13, Article 1

Rooster

Nevadaref wrote
This is what I was referring to:
NFHS
1-10-1:

Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.

Now you tell me when the ball has passed through the basket.

OK, how 'bout this?

NFHS 5-5-1
NCAA Rule 4, Section 33. Goal

A goal shall be made when:
a. A live ball that is not a throw-in enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through;

What I want to know from Bob, whom I respect quite a bit, is where he got the bit about the top of the ball passing through the bottom of the net. It's not that I doubt him, but that I would rather be able to reference it myself. The reason I'm asking about this lies in the fact that I think there should have been 2.0 or 1.9 seconds on the clock after the made basket. I haven't been able to find anything that confirms that but watching the replays while the game was live made me think there should have been more time on the clock before the "starting the clock late" issue.