Dead ball contact (Video)
 

Dead ball contact

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Peace

Unless he shoved him, that looks like a really touchy call.

Hard to tell from this video, but it looks like they were just tangled up at the time of the whistle and the player with the ball ripped away and lost his balance.

JRut, I think you over-reacted on that one. I don't see the need for a dead ball foul on that play. It appears as though neither player stopped fighting for the ball when the whistle sounded. The video doesn't show the blue player shoving the white player or extending his arms. From the angle we have on the video, I have to agree with the previous post stating it looks like the white player loses his balance trying to rip the ball away.

He put his elbow in his chest after he hesitated. Hard to see from that far away, but that is why I made that call. Secondly, if you see the very next play after that, the same player is fouled very hard just to stop the clock. The white coach reacted immediately after as if the opponent were trying to hurt his players after the T. It also must be noted that the player did not even complain. He knew what he was doing and was unemotional about the call which also fouled him out of the game. These teams had played 3 previous times with the team in white winning all those times. The big guy in white was not that uncoordinated or a flopper. But I appreciate the comments, just think the kid did that on purpose to give a little extra. I stand by that part of that judgment.

Peace

Whistle blows, Lead signals foul and then blue moves hard into white. I can't tell if he extended his arms or not but I can see why the T was called. The contact after the play was excessive and did not look to me to be a continuation of the play or incidental. Now, if I had been there i might not have called it but I have no problem with theway it was called.

I saw the elbow. It's around the :09 mark at full-speed. It's the reason White #33 went sailing OOB. The wrestling for the ball was pretty much done by that point. Given the background info you had on the teams having that kid out of the game wasn't a bad thing.

I also have to say you've got some springs in those legs, Jeff :D

I am not old man!!! :eek:

Well, getting there but you know what I mean. ;)

Peace

Men Of A Certain Age ...
 

I am. I had Catholic middle school state tournament games today. Scheduled for two games, and knowing that, worked my butt off for two games (full size high school court). After the second game, the site director asked us to stick around for a few minutes because the officials for the next game, the last game of the day, weren't at the site. After a phone call, we discovered that, due to a schedule snafu, there weren't officials scheduled for the last game of the day, so we stuck around to work the game. My partner (a young whipper-snapper) and I put in a great effort in that game (it's a state tournament game, no "relaxed" mechanics), but I will admit that I was getting tired, and sore, by the last period. It's tough to get old.

I agree with the call, Jeff.

You were there for the entire game so you have a feel for the temperature of the game, and you have a much closer and better look than we have from the video. So if you think there was something extra there, than I would go with your instinct. My comments are based only on the video.

On a side note, the white coach is a douche bag. I wouldn't slow down, let alone call 911 if I saw him dying on the side of the road.

Lastly, congratulations on getting your first basketball super sectional this year.

I got that. I wasn't even thinking about that at first when I posted this. I was just taking the play for what it was. But I just realized how these things can be influenced by the "tempreture" as you stated.

I am sorry, I got a big chuckle out of that comment. :D

Thanks BTW.

Peace

I see a push, I see no problem with a T.

In a high school game, a two-handed shove like this near the end of the game absolutely needs to be penalized.

This is EXACTLY the type of play that, if allowed to occur without penalty, causes a good game to become one that includes a fight.

Good call JRut!

Thanks for sharing.

I like the call. Clearly after whistle excessive illegal contact. We can't ignore it, so we penalize it.

Good get. Not one that is always seen and called.

Me too. He clearly gave an extra and excessive shove.

Excellent piece of preventive officiating IMO. Blue player gives him the little extra that usually gets missed…and starts the simmering that could explode a couple plays later. Nice work JRut.

That looked like the explosion to me. Real prevention would be getting whatever caused the blue player to react that way.

And what was that? I don't see anything to make him react, other than the score and time left in the game.

Dang Rut. The only thing I have to ask is how do you stay so young looking, :D?

But I do believe your call was a good one especially because the L can't see the Blue player's actions from your side of the court.

MTD, Sr.

Jeff said earlier the T wound up being Blue 5's fifth foul. That being the case there were already at least four attempts at "prevention" prior to this.

Jeff did an outstanding job here catching what needed to be caught.

Unless, of course, you think every such action like this is the officials fault -- in that case, I'd like to suggest altering your line of thinking. Or become a play-by-play announcer or coach.

The player that was fouled in this case was not a dirty player. He played hard but never did anything dirty or over the top. I am sure the white player was frustrating to play against because he was big and strong as big strong players often do to their opponents. But as stated he did not foul anyone hard or even knock anyone down while fouling. There was a play earlier when a player on the blue team threw himself into a stationary and vertical (same big player on the white team) player and was fell, but he did not slap at the ball or try to block the shot. He just stood there in a LGP and hardly was moved by the smaller player. That was the most contact this player was involved in during that game.

Now these teams did play 3 other times, so maybe there was some history in their game, but nothing in that game stood out. And for the record in this particular Regional, we had the white team in their previous game and this player fouled out. I actually had called a couple of rebounding or off ball fouls on this player and it did not involve this blue player that shoved this kid.

Now the entire game is online and on this site. You are more than welcome to watch the game and decide what other things could have been dealt with. I am willing to hear your thoughts if you wish to give them. I just cannot think of anything I witnessed that led to this in this play or other specific play.

Peace

That's a good grab even if the kid's been an angel throughout the contest.

I support the call.

This play is a candidate to escalate. (Based on team rivalry, attitude of the players, etc.) Left uncalled, you may see something else a few minutes later.

Frankly, from my history at camps, finals, etc, this is the type of call that will spring one official forward where others don't move on.

Great grab Rut!

I never said there was something in the video the crew missed. :) I was simply pointing out that calling this tech isn't "preventative officiating".

I was talking about preventative officiating. Something like noticing the player is getting frustrated and giving him a quick word or alerting a coach or captain. Calling a foul is reactionary to something that already happened.

LOL! Good one Rich.

I will never say there is something we could not have done better, but it did not appear this was a situation where something was glaring from the situations in the game. Other than these being conference rivals and playing each other several times this year, it was a hard fought game. And I do not talk to captains to stop things, I talk to the players at hand. Actually these teams hardly even addressed us about any foul that was called as well. So not much to talk about honestly.

Peace

Interesting (I guess) that this same team also had a player get a foul, followed by a T, in the previous game.

Great grab on the two handed shove after the whistle. Way to have your partners back.

Totally agree with this. That was a great job "staying alive while the ball is dead." I wonder how many fouls like this may get missed (myself included) because the "play is over" and we're moving on to the next play.