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-   -   RSBQ: Similar Contact? (video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97430-rsbq-similar-contact-video.html)

maroonx Tue Mar 04, 2014 07:08am

Illegal dribble on black #24 before block by defense.

#olderthanilook Tue Mar 04, 2014 09:36am

I have a blocking foul in Play #1 and nothing (borderline travel - but I'd probably pass) on Play #2.

Rich Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 925582)
First play: I'm fine with incidental contact. You can say that RSBQ was compromised a bit, but if you see the play through, there was an easy pass for the open three.

Second play: The camera angle doesn't see the hand check, which is typically a "knock it off" call for me. If there was a hand check here, I'm fine with it.

The problem with the first play is that there's a big-time travel after the bump. I think the foul needs to be called there.

I don't see the illegal dribble maroonx mentions.

referee99 Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:51am

Full game
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GSEnRVhE3S4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Raymond Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:48am

#1) Foul. Affect RSBQ and causes a violation.

#2) Marginal, but if called, needs to come from Trail.

just another ref Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 925608)
The problem with the first play is that there's a big-time travel after the bump.


I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

JetMetFan Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 925636)
I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

If it makes you feel better I didn't even consider the travel when I determined it to be a foul :D

On another front: for those in the "RSBQ was compromised but he got the pass off..." camp, we're probably going to need to modify that thinking because...lots of people have video cameras (and there are PiTAs like me who post plays on internet forums ;) ). Lots of games below the college level are televised, streamed, etc. In other words, there are many more eyes on us now than there were even five years ago. If either coach clipped Play #1 and sent it to an assignor/supervisor IMO they'd have a legit gripe regarding a no-call.

*HC for Black: "My kid got knocked off balance..."
*HC for White: "The kid traveled before he passed the ball and they got a wide open three."

The fact the NCAA (M & W) is trying to get away from this stuff is another source of pressure for lack of a better word. I know I've had plays in my college games this season that I wouldn't have put a whistle on a year ago until the play "developed." Now they want the RSBQ contact called so freedom of movement isn't compromised and those who know more than me keep emphasizing the same thought process is filtering down to the HS level.

Just my $0.02.

#olderthanilook Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 925636)
I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

I don't see a travel in play #1, but there may well be a travel in play #2.

Rich Tue Mar 04, 2014 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 925642)
I don't see a travel in play #1, but there may well be a travel in play #2.

The travel is blatantly obvious in play 1. Look at the first video at about 0:17 - 0:18 seconds. Regardless of where you think the gather happens, the right foot either comes down twice after the gather or is on the floor when he gathers, is picked up, and is put back on the floor.

I was working a first round regional game last Tuesday and called two obvious spin move travels on the first 5 or so possessions down the floor. The coach told me that hadn't been called all year. I told him exactly what had happened -- pivot foot lifted and replaced after the gather/end of dribble. His comment, "Oh, I'm sure you're right, but nobody calls that!"

#olderthanilook Tue Mar 04, 2014 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 925644)
The travel is blatantly obvious in play 1. Look at the first video at about 0:17 - 0:18 seconds. Regardless of where you think the gather happens, the right foot either comes down twice after the gather or is on the floor when he gathers, is picked up, and is put back on the floor.

I was working a first round regional game last Tuesday and called two obvious spin move travels on the first 5 or so possessions down the floor. The coach told me that hadn't been called all year. I told him exactly what had happened -- pivot foot lifted and replaced after the gather/end of dribble. His comment, "Oh, I'm sure you're right, but nobody calls that!"

In play one, the contact by defender occurs first. It probably causes the travel.

What about a possible travel in play #2? It's close, imo.

Rich Tue Mar 04, 2014 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 925649)
What about a possible travel in play #2? It's close, imo.

Here's my opinion:

Right foot pivot after the gather, never comes back down. Left foot hops, but the pass is clearly out before it comes back to the floor a second time.

#olderthanilook Tue Mar 04, 2014 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 925651)
Here's my opinion:

Right foot pivot after the gather, never comes back down. Left foot hops, but the pass is clearly out before it comes back to the floor a second time.

I'm with you there. I think you're right.

But, I think illegal contact in play #1 occurs before (and causes) the travel.

Rich Tue Mar 04, 2014 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 925652)
I'm with you there. I think you're right.

But, I think illegal contact in play #1 occurs before (and causes) the travel.

Absolutely, that's why you *must* call the foul.

I agree with Jet that it's probably a foul regardless, but once contact causes a violation, you *gotta* come get it.


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