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-   -   You Don't Say ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97413-you-dont-say.html)

Rich Mon Mar 03, 2014 08:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 925295)
A few do. Mostly very young, less experienced rookies (who hopefully get it straightened out right away through peer evaluations), and very old veterans (who have done it that way for decades, and aren't going to change).

I call that signal the "Creeping Death Foul."

Rob1968 Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 925315)
Is that you Mr. Baumgartner, my high school sophomore English teacher? I didn't know that you were a basketball official. In fact, I didn't know that you were still alive. What's it feel like to be 110 years old?

Billy,
Your grace and humor, as demonstrated by not telling me to just keep my nitpicking to myself, speaks highly of your character. Such comments, as I made regarding pronoun usage, are transmitted with respect and affection, although we haven't had the pleasure to meet. As with many others on the forum, I would find such acquaintance to be a moment of great joy.

Dexter555 Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:26am

Structural thought
 
Billy, I think it's a great piece, and I'm a big fan of you on this forum.

Two thoughts: First, you intro with references to what shouldn't be said and the virtue of silence, but in most of your cases, something should be said, just said differently. But I like the intro a lot, so it's just a thought.

My second suggestion is to conclude each topic with your recommendation. I left a few of the paragraphs with "I know what he's recommending I not do, but I'm not sure how to do it better." You do make a recommendation on most, but not all. You could even structure each as a "Not this:" and conclude with "This:"

I think the content is great. Clearly the list could go on and on, but I think you hit all the right ones. If we could improve on these, basketball--not just officiating--would be better. Well said!;)

bainsey Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballref3966 (Post 925300)
Because many fans think any time a tall player secures a rebound over a shorter one without contact that it's "over the back."

There it is. I had to tell three coaches this year that "over the back is legal." I've loved the stunned look each time.

If you still believe "on" and "over" are the same thing, is it an automatic homerun when a fair ball goes ON the fence?

john5396 Mon Mar 03, 2014 01:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 925359)
There it is. I had to tell three coaches this year that "over the back is legal." I've loved the stunned look each time.

If you still believe "on" and "over" are the same thing, is it an automatic homerun when a fair ball goes ON the fence?

As a baseball umpire, I dont think I have ever considered the case where a fly ball comes to rest on the top of the fence... :)

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 03, 2014 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 925304)
Grammar

. . . smarter than me, could be smarter than I. The phraze infers "he is smarter than I am," and we would not say "he is smarter than me am."
The simplest test of such phrazes is to separate the two and test whether one would say them, separately and completely, with the desired verb, as one tends to say them in plural or intimating the verb by the structure.
Yes, it's a nit I just picked.:)

Actually no, this is not correct. In "smarter than me", "me" is an object, not a subject. Adding "am" changes the sentence, but "am" is not necessary. Replace "me" with any other subject. Smarter than a rock. "A rock" is the object of the sentence. Smarter than a rock is - "a rock" is the subject of a subordinate phrase.

Smarter than ME is correct.

bob jenkins Mon Mar 03, 2014 02:27pm

"I" is correct.

frezer11 Mon Mar 03, 2014 02:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 925266)
However, probably for reasons of tradition, there have been things that officials often, or sometimes, say during a game that do not have any basis in the rules, and should probably not be said in a game.
3/3/14

I don't know if you're up for including another phrase, but one that sticks out in my head is the phrase, "Not my call." And I realize based on your intro paragraph that most of your phrases seem rules based, but hearing officials say that one gets me fired up!

bainsey Mon Mar 03, 2014 04:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 925289)
I've always had trouble with punctuation inside, and outside, quotations, so I'm sticking with what I'm comfortable with, even though it's probably grammatically incorrect.

Time out, Connecticut.

Consider this. Last year, there was a story going around about a player who scored in the other team's basket (very late in the game, as I recall). The headline read something to the effect of "scored in his own basket."

I emailed the author and pointed out the error, how the object of basketball is to score in your own basket, etc. He replied with appreciation, but decided to stick with what he had because "it sounds better."

BillyMac Mon Mar 03, 2014 05:09pm

And It Has An Approved NFHS Signal, It's True, It's True ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 925318)
I call that signal the "Creeping Death Foul."

Over The Back Signal:

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6080...51709&pid=15.1

BillyMac Mon Mar 03, 2014 05:24pm

Silence Is Golden ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter555 (Post 925344)
My second suggestion is to conclude each topic with your recommendation. I left a few of the paragraphs with "I know what he's recommending I not do, but I'm not sure how to do it better." You do make a recommendation on most, but not all.

The ones where I made suggestions are, pretty much, universal recommendations, used by lots of officials, so I included them (no shot, designated spot).

The others have too many suggestions, all of them pretty good, to include.

I was tempted to suggest, "Let it hit.", in place of, "Let it hit the rim", but decided not to (shooter hitting only the backboard can present problems). I worked with partner last week who said, "Don't violate". Sounds pretty good, but I haven't heard this from any other officials.

Like I said, "Silence can’t be quoted". I wish I knew who said that first so I could give credit where credit is due. I actually first heard that statement here on the Forum.

Adam Mon Mar 03, 2014 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 925284)
I would finish "who are far smarter than me" with a colon (: ) rather than a period (.), since you have a list following.

Shouldn't it be "smarter than I?"

Rich1 Tue Mar 04, 2014 02:44am

I hope you will take the following in the spirit it is given, as an offer to help. It is not my intent to trample your efforts or be overly critical, but since you asked...

As a former news/sports editor and current journalism professor I see this piece as a good start for an article but it needs a lot of editing. A post with my suggestions would be too long so, if you are interested, I am willing to make some editorial changes and can repost it or send it too you privately.

In a nutshell, here are a few areas I would take a look at correcting:

The tone is too conversational/informal for an article. While it is informative, it comes across as if these are your opinions or observations but there are no factual supports so in its current state I would want to run it as a sports column/editorial and not as news article.

There are still quite a few punctuation, grammatical, & style errors -- the over use of the word game in para 1; the over use of commas; a lack of transitions between paragraphs; there is not a true introduction (one that also hooks the reader) or conclusion paragraph to the article; just to name a few.

Another thought I had was about you, the writer. As a reader, why should I listen to you? What are your credentials? A paragraph to establish that you ARE an expert as well as some carefully placed quotes from sources (such as some of your friends on this forum) will give a more authoritive tone to the piece. **For the record, I know you are qualified to write this. I am only suggesting that the average reader of the publication needs to know it.

As for the last paragraph, it should simply start with "Finally, two thoughts from people..." (no need for the "and"). However, I would dump the whole paragraph and move the quote by Coolidge to the introduction. Something like -- Calvin Coolidge once said, "the things I did not say never hurt me." Of course, he was not talking about basketball, but many referees would be smart to heed this sage advice as they communicate with coaches, players, and fans of the game.

Overall, it is a good piece and the idea you are presenting is well thought out.

BillyMac Tue Mar 04, 2014 07:31am

Who Opens With Calvin Coolidge ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich1 (Post 925587)
The tone is too conversational/informal for an article. While it is informative, it comes across as if these are your opinions or observations but there are no factual supports so in its current state I would want to run it as a sports column/editorial and not as news article.

Another thought I had was about you, the writer. As a reader, why should I listen to you? What are your credentials? A paragraph to establish that you ARE an expert as well as some carefully placed quotes from sources will give a more authoritative tone to the piece. For the record, I know you are qualified to write this. I am only suggesting that the average reader of the publication needs to know it.

As for the last paragraph, it should simply start with "Finally, two thoughts from people..." (no need for the "and"). However, I would dump the whole paragraph and move the quote by Coolidge to the introduction. Something like -- Calvin Coolidge once said, "the things I did not say never hurt me." Of course, he was not talking about basketball, but many referees would be smart to heed this sage advice as they communicate with coaches, players, and fans of the game.

Thanks. I made a few changes (see above), per your suggestion, to my opening, and closing statements.

This is being written more as an educational tool, rather than an article for the general public. It will, if accepted by my interpreter, only be published in our local board's newsletter.

I have included biographical information, however I have not posted that information here because we have been warned by our secretary-treasurer, according to IAABO guidelines, to remain anonymous on social media.

Also, for the record, I am not qualified to write this. I couldn't write myself out of a brown paper bag.

Indianaref Tue Mar 04, 2014 08:50am

Far too often I hear other officials tell an offensive player to "get out of the lane", when in fact they are allowed to be there. I prefer to tell the players "keep moving".


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