Pre Game Conversation With Coaches
 

Is there anything special you say to the coaches before the game begins?

Here is my short list- Is this your book? Is it correct? Are the players properly equipped? We are enforcing the coaches box, let us know if it is 30 or full TO when you call it, get the players back on the floor ready to play by the 2nd horn.

Is there anything I am missing?

"First Name"

sometimes I add, "Good Luck" or "please be in the box when you yell at us".

Here's my whole thing:

"Hi Jim, Rich. Are all your players properly equipped? Good luck."

After we introduce ourselves, the R usually ask the home coach "what do we have tonight?" The coaches will tell us if they are going back to the locker room or not, if there are events during halftime that will make it longer, etc. The R then asks about legal equipment. Then comes all the "optional" things that the R may or may not tack on based on their own way of doing things:

Are you calling your own timeouts? Do you have a questions about bench decorum or the coaches box? We'll try to talk them out of stuff. Any medical issues we need to know about? We don't care about the coaches box, as long as you are coaching. If you have a question don't yell across the court, we will rotate around. Are you aware of the new POE on hand checks? Let us know on timeouts, we won't start the clock until you are in your huddle. Are your players going to be wearing their uniforms properly, tucked in? Have them out by the 2nd horn. Are you players going to exercise good sportsmanship tonight? We are gonna answer questions, ignore statements, penalize insanity. Be respectful of us, and we will be respectful of you. Etc, etc, etc. Did I miss any??

By Rule We Have To Do It, But Is There Really A Need ???
 

These are a few years old:

The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let the competition reflect mutual respect among participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according the NFHS rules. Good luck and have a great contest! (New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, Kentucky High School Athletic Association)

"PIAA requires all registered sports' officials to enforce the sportsmanship rules for coaches and contestants. Actions meant to demean opposing contestants, teams, spectators and officials are not in the highest ideals of interscholastic education and will not be tolerated. Let today's contest reflect mutual respect. Coaches please certify to the contest official(s) that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions. Good luck in today's contest." (Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association)

To captains: The FHSAA requires officials to enforce all rules regarding unsportsmanlike conduct by players and coaches. Violators will be ejected. It is strongly suggested that you remind your teammates and coaches of this policy. Additionally, this is a simple reminder that jewelry is not allowed, and jerseys must be tucked in during play if they are designed to be worn in. To coaches: Coaches, do you certify that your players are properly equipped and will demonstrate sportsmanlike behavior during today’s contest? (Florida High School Activities Association)

Mine: Players properly equipped, Players wearing uniforms properly, Practice good sportsmanship.

wow I would think all that talking would just irritate a coach.

It would sure irritate me!

"Hi Coach. Can you check the book? You have any questions? Good Luck!" :D

Where's Snaqwells when you need him?

I work with one guy about once a year who has this huge spiel at the captain's meeting. I finally figured out how to handle it -- I shake the captain's hands and when he says his first word, I back out and stand on the sideline opposite the table and don't even hear the rest.

(Let's just say the tone is somewhere between condescending and patronizing and he always asks girls what the most important thing is at the end and the only correct answer is "To have fun." Puke. I don't need to hear that.)

My captains' meeting is between 8-10 seconds long and my greeting of the coach is exactly what I posted above (provided the coach's name is Jim -- if not, I have to change that one word).

We're in the post-season now and I don't change a thing this time of the year -- we start getting captains at 12:00 and I'm usually at the table by 11:15, including all the handshakes and introductions. The players want to warm up. The coaches want to do their jobs. Why do we want to spend a lot of time interrupting them?

My captains' meeting might last 20 seconds. At the end, I remind coaches to let us know if they want a 30-second or full timeout. We shake the coaches' hands at the end of the meeting and go on our way. I rarely, if ever, have problems doing it that way.

I get very uncomfortable when partners who are the R go on and on in the captains' meeting. It honestly makes me want to crawl in a hole. The players know which line is the OOB line, they know we will "Try to talk em' out of stuff", they know to "Play defense with your feet"....and on and on. If they don't know this stuff, it isn't going to do them any good now that it's almost March.

If you're a U, grab your other U (if applicable) and back out. Subtle message sent.

BTW, we always position the R tableside with his/her back to the table. That way the U's can simply back out at the end of the meeting and the R can just turn and walk a few steps to the table.

I do this a lot (unfortunately) in our HS association...we have a number of guys who do the whole "it's the black line all around" etc., etc. I just pat the third partner on the back and walk a few steps away and watch the warmups.

Have had two or three partners get mad about it and try to "discuss" it at halftime. Those discussions don't last very long.

As for Coaches, it's "Coach, good to see you again. Good luck tonight" as I shake their hand, and then I walk away.

"have a good game..."

Once in awhile I'll toss in "remember we're here to have fun" or mention something about sportsmanship but not very often.

My captains meetings go like this.

Coaches, everyone properly equipped? Play with good sportsmanship, let us know what you want for a time out. Any questions? Good luck.

One of these days we'll need to work together. The longer I live here, the longer that list seems to get.

3-person, though. 2-person is just too much work. :D

"Coaches. We've already talked to your players about sportsmanship, but I just want to ask you to keep an eye out and take care of any problems before we have to step in. We will be playing the black line all the way around. Wait, no, it's green here, sorry.

We'll be watching for hand checking tonight, as well as palming. Please don't ask about three seconds. We'll be happy to answer any questions you might have, as long as you ask nicely.

Let us know what you want on timeouts, and remember that first horn is a warning horn. The rule is that we start playing right after that second horn.

If you think we've made a Correctable Error, please go to the scorer's table and inform them to hit the horn at the next dead ball. If it is indeed a correctable error, we'll not charge you the timeout. If it isn't, we will.

Also, here's the official book, please check it for accuracy."

As far as I'm concerned this is the same as "Black line all the way around." The coaches who tell us what they want will do so even if we don't remind them. The coaches who need reminding will still need reminding during a game regardless of what we say in a coaches meeting.

Based on what we have already discussed in another thread, I've cut my coaches' meeting down to: My name, then "Players properly equipped? Good luck."

Coaches and captains meeting...biggest waste of time.

All I say in my meeting to players is "listen to us when we are talking to you." I want them to know that we are being helpful or else. Later this can be used to help us when things start to go off the rails.

Then I let the players go and the rest is to remind the coach about the coaching box (emphasized in our state) and ask them are their players properly equip. It takes less than a minute and we go about our business.

I would rather not talk to coaches, but someone had to make an inappropriate comment to players when we were in the middle of the court, so here we are.

Peace

I'd be good with that. I don't even ask about being legally equipped. No coach has never told me they weren't and there is no penalty even if they are.

Last 2 person game of the year tonight!!!

Some things are required by the state.

The explanation I have heard is that some coaches don't want to tell us right away so they can milk a few more seconds before we start the timeout clock. Some R's here tell the coaches about timeouts and assure them we will wait until both teams are in the huddle to start the clock.

I can see what you're saying. I don't always say it actually. I usually will do it if I don't know the coaches or haven't had them before. I don't really have any rhyme or reason to it. Maybe I'll just stop saying it all together.

We're in the same state (mj and I). And I'll probably take mj's advice and shorten this even more. It eliminates the R having to go last in order to ask the question. :)

Working a 3-person girls game tonight. Last regular season game for me - working with two partners I've never met before.

Waste of time, but gotta do it
 

In Kentucky, we are required to read the sportsmanship card. I usually start the meeting by waving it around saying: "The card I'm not going to read is all about sportsmanship, so everybody play nice!" I then ask the coaches if everybody is legally and properly equipped. They always answer yes. "Thanks guys, good luck!" No more than a minute.

I did get one partner good this year, though. I was one of the umpires, and we were commenting before the game what a waste of time the captains/coaches meeting is. He went through the "play nice/legally equipped" stuff, then out of habit looked at us if we had anything to add. The other umpire started to back out and I stepped up and said (in my best Barney Fife impersonation: "Now boys! Tonight we're not gonna put up with any nonsense. We're nipping in the bud!"

Both coaches and the R about swallowed their gum. The kids also got a chuckle. The look on the R's face when I stepped up was priceless.

You're all forgetting the most important thing. "If the ball gets away, you get it, because I don't feel like playing ballboy tonight" !!:D:D:D

Silly Monkeys ...
 

"Speaking captains? What're your numbers? Are you starting?"

To the captains: Introduce myself and my 2 partners. Ask the visiting team "any questions about the court?" Ask everyone "your all pretty good students aren't you?" "you behave yourselves in class?" "This is another classroom. We expect you to behave the same way here as you do during the day in class" Then I get a spokesperson from each team to designate as one who will settle down any unsporting behavior by their teammates. Then I ask my partners if they anything to add. Then it's "good luck to both teams".
Sounds like a lot but it takes about a minute or less.
To the coaches: Introduce myself. Ask: are all players are properly equipped? Is your scorebook is ready? Make sure to designate if you want a 30 or full time out. Point out to try and stay within the coaches box and "do your thing!" Then it's "good luck"!!

Here's what the players hear:

"Blah, blah, blah. Blah."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ss2hULhXf04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What I say:

"Take care of you knuckleheads so we don't have to.

Good luck."

They're very good at pretending to listen (so yes, they're behaving just as they do in class.)

Coaches:

"Everyone properly equipped? Please have them ready to play at the 2nd horn. Good luck."

We do our coaches and players meetings seperate. I really like it that way, even though most of the kids don't really care, it at least gives some of them the chance to have a little bit of a stake in the meeting, and we aren't just talking to the coaches.
Anyways, players meeting is play nice, and listen to us, any questions? Good luck. 10 seconds or so max. Coaches "meeting" is simpler than anyone else's response I've seen: "Hey Coach, good luck tonight!"

Captain's meetings that I hold are over in 10 seconds.

"We expect good sportsmanship. Any questions?"
No!
"Good luck"

Coach's meeting.

"Any questions?"
No!
"Good luck"

Speaking Captain
 

I have only calling basketball for 4 years and I dont understand why do some officials as for the "Speaking Captain"? There is nothing in the mechanics manual about this, and there is nothing preventing any player from asking a question in the proper manner. Is there something I'm missing?

LOL Your probably right on that!! :D

IMHO, no, you're not missing anything, this is an outdated practice. I still work with a couple guys who do it, and at the end of the first quarter of a game earlier this year, I asked him, "Hey, who were those speaking captains?" And he had no idea. I wasn't trying to call him out or anyting (we're buds anyways, so no big deal), but my point was proven that not only is it irrelevant in the game, but we aren't even paying attention to who they are either!

No, you are not missing something. There is no rules, case book, or mechanics manual basis for anything involving "speaking captains". It is an archaic holdover from a long time ago. Unfortunately all of my Varsity R's this year asked for them.

2-7-1
3-1-1
3-1-2
3-3-1e
8-2
8-3

I could tell frezer11 who my captain(s) are, BTW. I always notify them that play is about to begin before I toss the ball, so I need to know who they are. My meeting still only takes 8-10 seconds.

For the lazy:

2-7-1 "The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game."

3-1-1 "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain."

3-1-2 "The captain is the representative of his/her team and may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court."

3-3-1e "A captain may request a defensive match-up if three or more substitutes from the same team enter during an opportunity to substitute."

8-2 "The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach."

8-3 "The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by any player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or designated starter. The coach or captain shall designate the free *thrower(s)."

Unfortunately, Rich missed the part where IAUMP was asking specifically about "speaking captains".

I can't tell if you are serious.

Per the rules, how many captains are on each team? How many are usually sent to the meeting?

Since most teams send more than 1 captain to the meeting, and technically, a "letter of the law" reading of the rule says there's only "one" captain for each team, most officials normally ask for the speaking captain.

2-4 players come to the meeting. By rule, there is ONE captain.

Read 2-7-1 again as well as the duties of the referee (or designated tosser) in the officials manual and then make a guess.

I don't know about "most," but that's the rationale.

I stopped asking once I realized it really didn't matter. I'd be fine if we got rid of this holdover practice.

Me too. Till they do officially, I'll continue to do it -- partially as one of those things that ties me back to the days when I started officiating.

To be honest, I don't care if others do this or not -- but I like to know what's in the books before I decide whether to follow along. :D

(Some of the old practices from my early years seem downright bizarre compared to this one. Like the trail signaling with two fingers after every made basket...the trail administering every free throw...the lack of action rule...working Cadillac and live-ball crossing over the court to "get back in Cadillac"....the fouler being required to raise his/her hand (that one predates me).)

OK I've seen the Cadillac position reference enough without asking...what was it?

Pregame and stuff
 

I find out who is game management and where to locate a trainer if needed and available. Verify properly and legally equipped and not eschew good sportsmanship to all.

Cadillac position is the old position in which the lead and trail official are table side and the center is opposite the table. I liked it because there are 2 officials that have similar views of the play as the coaches.

That's not the context in which I was using it.

Back in the day, the official always had to be on the left side of the court when facing play (2-person, of course). Therefore, if you inbounded the ball on the right (as opposed to left) side of the court, you had to look for an opportunity to cross over (the trail always initiated these crossovers and then the lead would follow suit). Completely idiotic that anyone ever thought you could work the game better this way and the "other" orientation was backwards and not ideal. Of course in those days the T had to receive a bounce pass from the lead and HAND the ball to the FT shooter on ALL free throws. Then for a couple of years we were allowed to bounce to the shooter as the lead on subsequent FTs, but the T had to administer the first one.

What you mention was the original 3-person layout that may or may not still be used in Louisiana (it was as of a few years ago - I made fun of it then). C was always opposite. It was an idiotic system because the C would be forced to cover half of the court and had an almost 50% chance to be on-ball, too. It may have also been known as Cadillac, I have no idea.

O Captain! My Captain! Rise Up And Hear The Bells (Walt Whitman) ...
 

I'm sure that Whitman was talking about the second horn.

One, and only one, captain, from each team. 3-1-1 "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain."

I've had as many as eight. We were getting in the way of the layup lines. It was like a freaking football game.

In two man, there used to be a preference that for each official the court and players were boxed in to their right. So, if I'm T and I'm facing the endline, the basket is to my right side.

When I first started officiating in college, this was the mechanic. By the time I started doing it again after college, it was gone.

Note: I might be wrong on which side it was, but the concept is there.

Edited to add: Anyone who says the word "eschew" in a captains meeting is asking for trouble.

I'm In ...
 

Where do I sign the petition?

Also. I'll talk to any player who asks a polite question, including "the" captain, any other "captains", all the way down to the last kid on the end of the bench.

My, "Ready?", jump ball question is given to all ten players.

Yeah. I know. I'm a rebel. That's just the way that I like to roll.

Misty Water Color Memories ...
 

... getting paid $15.00 per game.

I recall cadillac. I recall playing when we had to raise our hands (although that may have just been a hold-over). I do remember trail administering the first free throw. I do remember signaling all made baskets.

Why does Louisiana keep coming up?

I can tell you that I always ask.

It's also useful if you need to tell them to get out of the TO huddle a little earler, or "speak to #xx about yyyyyyyyy".

Both comments are used a dozen times or so a season.

In Tennessee we have 2 separate meetings also...

My coaches or " administrators" meeting comes first, ideally around the 11:00-12:00 minute mark. The game administrator does most of the talking. My part consists of-"Good luck tonight guys, stay in your boxes if you are talking to us and relatively close if your not (POI this year). Remember that respectfully asked questions will get respectfully answered questions and we will answer those questions but will not respond to statements. Sportsmanship is important tonight from all players and all coaches. We are going to work hard and officiate a good ball game. Good luck to both of your teams."

Captains meeting is ideally at the 5:00 minute mark and goes something like this: "Who is the floor captain? You guys are the leaders of your teams for a reason so act like leaders on the floor. Sportsmanship is key tonight and any unsporting acts will be dealt with accordingly. Play hard and good luck."

Admin meeting is usually less than 1:00 min long unless game admin goes longer with his talk than normal, captains meeting is always quick...the longest part of it is waiting on them to get done shaking hands so we can begin the meeting!

And I am in agreement with those who have said that they don't actually hear us....it all goes in one ear and out the other! But because it is asked of us, it will always be done in my games...

I didn't realize you were that <s>ol---</s>seasoned.

Get off my lawn

Floor Captains, Speaking Captains ...
 

I have used captains for this in the past, however, I will utilize any of the multiple captains, and, in fact, any player that I can identify as a "leader" on the team.

I know the rules tell us that each team has only one captain, but I really don't have any use for "floor captains", or "speaking captains". If I need a player to give me a hand, I'll find one, or more than one, whether they have an imaginary "C" on their jersey, or not.

I'd actually prefer to talk to a coach, but in the ebb, and flow, of the game, it's sometimes easier to talk to a player.

As long as we're in the discussion of outdated processes, what is the purpose of signaling the "C" or the player number when reporting a time-out? It's another thing that doesn't get written the book, and I've never understood why even have it as a mechanic.

I do it for reference purposes.

We do it as a standard practice for those scorers who actually record the information. More importantly, if a coach happens to ask "who called that" we can answer.

It doesn't? I do it on the few occasions when I keep score.

Burke's Law ...
 

It's not just a mechanic, it's a rule, and it's not outdated, it's still in the book: 2-11: The scorer shall: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.

Fair enough. We don't have scorekeepers here that go through any kind of formal training, I've never actually seen a recorded "who" part in a scorebook before

Add me into the camp of reporting who requested the timeout. On the somewhat rare times a player is the one requesting, I give the table his/her number.