Anyone see this? (Video)
 

APG I can do the slo-mo when I get home in about 2 hours if you want but...

The view from the side/TV angle makes me think the C was about to blow his whistle for the end of the quarter and just blew too early. Not saying there wasn't contact but I can't tell at full speed whether he had an open hand or a fist up.

If their association has a media person it would've been a good idea for that person to explain what happened. Folks probably wouldn't have liked the answer but the silence is worse.

The news article has a different angle that confirms that there most definitely was a foul that got missed.

I've looked at the video at normal speed at least 10 times. It looks like the defender either hit the ball or the arm....who knows. The issues everybody sees is the C signaling something and then waving off the shot/signaling the end of the game...then the light goes off on the backboard...followed by the L signaling the end of the game...a jog to half court where a 1 second conversation takes place before sprinting off the floor.

This is pretty confusing to other officials so I'm sure those witnessing the game were probably beyond themselves especially the losing team.

I just wonder if the UIL will give an explanation this week.

There was some discussions on different outlets that a travel call occurred before the shot. Just for the sake of discussion did anyone see a travel? I did not.

I wish we had the T in the video....

"Playoffs....You're talking playoffs???" :D

And, both players involved know that there was foul-worthy contact on the play.

There is a whistle, C raises his arm (can't tell whether it is open hand or fist) and then gives the no goal mechanic. The C is then seen taking off his whistle as he is walking toward the lane and the lead. That action indicates to me that he didn't have a foul call and was heading out. Neither official (C or L) seemed in that big of a hurry. The whistle, however, clearly beats the lights on the backboard. I am not sure how none of them felt the whistle beat the horn/lights and discussed at least putting some time back up due to an inadvertent whistle (?!?!?!?) from the C. I guess they could have said that no one definitively saw time left so they called it using lag time (which no longer exists). I GUESS?!?!? That is a bad way to end any game let alone a playoff game! I did not see a travel either. Wow.

Depends on whether you think the gather happened with the left foot on the floor. If you think so, it's a travel - the left foot would've been the pivot foot and it definitely came down again.

This is an odd sequence for several reasons already noted. My question is how do you just leave the court without some explanation to the coaches and/or table? And a playoff game no less? Looks pretty bad from an outside perspective.

I had a similar scenario earlier this year...two point game...foul right at the horn. My crew came together..discussed the play and explained to both coaches exactly what we judged to be the sequence and how we would proceed.

Just coming together and walking off? Eeesh. Textbook example of poor game management.

Looks like a jump stop where she doesn't get her feet back down exactly at the same time. Technically a travel.

From the video with the article, the view from behind the play, clicking it frame by frame, it certainly looks like a foul to me and there is 1.2 - 0.9 left on the clock. #33 Black certainly acts like she knows she fouled the shooter. I see what you mean by the left foot gather but that is tough at full speed. Regardless, how don't three later round playoff officials at least get together and discuss???? And where the heck is the Trail?????

video added
 

Here are the three versions I've found. The last definitely shows the contact. As for a travel - it all depends on when you determine A1 ended her dribble. If the C wasn't sure I can live with a no-call on that aspect of things since everything was moving quickly.

The silence regarding what did/didn't happen is a big concern. There were more than a few options:

*If the C was calling a travel, fine. Come out with the signal, put time back on the clock if someone has definite knowledge and give Black the ball for a throw-in.
*If it was going to be a no-call, fine. We all kick calls however someone has to explain that to the HC who is about to lose the game. I give them credit for not doing a Boeheim/Mulkey in that spot.
*If it was an inadvertent whistle, fine. Again, we all kick calls but someone needs to give a quick explanation, determine whether time should be put back on the clock and - if so - go to the AP arrow.


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JetFan,

Good video and analysis!

Are we even sure the C is the one who blows the whistle?? The look on his face and the way he drops his whistle makes me wonder...in the end-line view, you can see the L with his arm up also, and then he walks in and waves the shot off also. Maybe the L blew the whistle???

It's blurry... but isn't L raising his hand with 3 fingers, indicating a 3 point shot? My sound's not good here so I can't hear exactly when (or even if) a whistle is sounded... but what if they are simply ruling a 3 point shot badly missed here?

IMO - she traveled then got fouled by black's left arm on her shooting arm. That is only with the benefit watching the video in slow-mo. This could have gone either way, and quite possibily the officials thought time ran out before either of those happend.

I think you are right.

I think the Lead may have had the whistle (last part of the video (about the 50 second part of the clip posted by JMetFan) shows that official with arm still raised). The C was indicating a 3-pt attempt and dropped his hand immediatly when it was clear the ball wasn't going in.

Clearly something was missed here. My best guess is that Lead saw the foul, blew the whistle, incorrectly judged the foul to have occured after the horn, and chose to ignore the foul because it was after the horn and not intentional/flagrant (of course this doesn't matter because it was in the act of shooting -- but that would explain what appears to happen). Obviously none of the officials thought to get together and figure this out before heading off.

Not withstanding the lack of post game communication with the coaches, could the Timer have failed to start the clock and because the T should have had a backcourt count could the game ended before the clock actually stopped. There is not good view of the clock during the throw-in so I just trying to give an alternate ending. Still not a good way for the officials to have a game end.

MTD, Sr.

There's definitely a whistle blown before the lights on the backboard go off, I don't think it was C's whistle tho, I think he's signaling the 3 pt attempt. Based on JMF's video I think the lead had a foul and there was no doubt still time left when he blew his whistle.
The most concerning to me is that their little get together is so short (and with just 2 of the 3) and then they leave with absolutely no explanation to anyone. Very strange to me.

If there's a learning here - it might be to stop with the sprinting off the court habit a lot of us have when there might be something to discuss. I do it too - but I think them bailing without sharing with each other what happened is as much at fault as anything here.

That was my thought. We can't see the T at all in any of the videos until the 3 of them are walking off the court. The C looks like he dropped his had in response to someone else's whistle. Could be the L's or the T's. Maybe the T called a travel and they decided the "lag" in the clock was no correctable.

So I'll modify my earlier observation...

*If the L was calling a travel, fine. Come out with the signal, put time back on the clock if someone has definite knowledge and give Black the ball for a throw-in.

Regardless, the guy who blew the whistle - and it appears more and more it was the T - needed to look up at the clock right at that moment. One of the endline views shows 0.9-0.8 on the clock when the whistle sounded. Too much time to rule "it was too close to the expiration of time to stop the clock." When you're in that spot you have to know you need to look at the clock the moment you put air in your whistle.


This is a problem as well. Where are they rushing to? On the sideline view we don't even see the T until the C & L reach the opposite 3-point arc. This scenario was unique because only one team was going to be upset with whatever call was made. If it was a foul the Black team wasn't going to complain because all of those kids knew their teammate contacted the shooter. As I said earlier the White HC deserved an explanation - or at least more than a cursory "let's go" type of get together - especially with the gap between the whistle and the horn. If they explain, there's an answer. No explanation means there's video and as we've all learned...

Tape don't lie.

Statement
 

Can you say Cluster F'd. I mean what were the guys thinking? It was all so bizarre. Whistle blown, weird preliminary, then buzzer, then backboard light, then basket waived off, then they sprint off the court. All the while the T seems to barely have left the endline.

I *hope* I never make it to one of these types of videos.

That's a non-statement.

And the "30-year official" who said something but was too cowardly to say his name should be ashamed of himself.

The "explanation" just makes it worse. As is always the case the cover-up is worse than the crime. The video points to the crew FUBAR-ing the situation. Admit it, tell everyone why it happened and move on. The losing HC is quoted as saying she knows the outcome isn't going to change. Let her know why things went the way they did and the situation goes away that much faster.

Meantime if I'm the assignor that crew is probably done for the postseason and I most likely don't send them to either of those schools next season just to put some distance between the situation.

do you'se(my cousin Vinny) people sometime use players reactions to call fouls. I know that isn't common but I have on occasion. Or out of bounds plays. Ok obviously not most of the time as if you did it would get out of control especailly with some players who are going to be emotive every single time they think their is a missed call.
From the video, I can see why each ref missed the foul based on their angle. But based on the reactions of the players, especially the defensive team, they should have realized something was amiss and figured things out before leaving the court. The fans must have been bewildered.

The problem is we can't even say they missed the foul. There may have been a whistle for a travel. There may have been a whistle for something else. The problem is no one knows other than the three of them and their supervisor.

As JMF stated, I think the L called a travel and then waived it off when the horn/lights went off. The C was marking a 3pt shot and appeared to look at the L when there was a whistle heard.

Edit to add: Looking back at the original link it appears there is a new video that clearly shows the L quickly raising his arm and then lowering it.

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Just from this ending I would be curious as to the overall officiating of the game up to that point. This isn't what I would expect from varsity level officials.

It seems that everyone (the coach, players, fans, sports fans, other officials) simply wants to know WHAT was the judgment call or ruling by the officials.

I'm a bit surprised it doesn't look like that will be answered.

I guess no one will ever know??? Pretty bizarre in this day and age, right?

:confused:

And technically, she did travel before the shot. Did a "same step" move with the left foot.

Not necessarily bizarre for a HS level game I don't think. I believe my association has a policy where officials will not comment on games. And I can see an association taking a position that it will not comment on judgement calls (no foul).

I saw that too. I'm wondering if the Lead called a foul and then second-guessed himself, considering that it was a huge call and he went way out of his primary to get it. Maybe he was going to rule it as an inadvertant whistle, and then the horn sounded and they didn't want to/know to put time back on the clock. So they let the game end on an IW... that would be my guess.

What's funnny is White's HC talking to her players like free throws are about to be shot, and the officials just running of court like nothing out of the ordinary happened.

As far as the question about a travel, A1 does travel before releasing the shot, but I see B1 making initial contact to A1's arm prior to the travel.

God job boys! Love the no call! Let the player decide the game!

Sincerely:

Jim Boeheim

Hokie...the question is WHAT was this judgement? Someone blew a whistle during regulation....most want to know what did they judge to have occurred. Also, I agree the officials should not comment after the game but someone should clear the air about what occurred.

"What happened?"

"Not telling you. Watch this 40 time." :cool:

Do you live anywhere near all this? I'm from the East but I know TX is a rather large place ;)

As an official who wants to understand what happened ... yes, I'd love to know. I also wouldn't expect a press release out to the public for something like this. Do we know for sure that the Athletic Department, State Association, Officials representative (assignor/association) haven't addressed this privately?

High School Basketball Playoff Game Ends In Stupid, Ridiculous Way

Here's Deadspin's article. What is the one official doing with the raised open hand as they leave the court?

If I had to guess he was gestering to the table to see if they were good to go (i.e. a scoring issue that could have made a difference in the game).

Here's the story picked up by the local news station. So apparently the judgement is the foul or whatever the call occurred after the buzzer so game over. Now that we have an answer I'm done...


Celina fights against UIL's decision in controversial ending | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth

Okay, so now we know (from the article embedded in the Deadspin story): UIL says the crew determined time expired before the contact.

That still doesn't clear up anything. Last shot responsibility belonged to C since he was opposite the table, though they may have decided to let T take it since the action was in C's primary. C and L looked genuinely shocked by the whistle - as they should have been since it came before the LEDs on the backboard lit up.

My guess is T wasn't waving off the shot because his partners didn't seem to know what was happening until more than a few seconds after the play was blown dead.

At any rate, that's where the "judgment" part of UIL's statement comes in. Saying time expired wasn't great judgment but it was still judgment.

More than that. I thought one of the first stories I read, said a trip to the final four was on the line, so this game must have been deep into their state tournament.

I know, I know...I can't let this go.

1. If the explanation was the crew determined time expired before any contact, why not just say that within 24 hours after the game?

2. This is more of a teaching point. If the officials who didn't make the call were aware the LEDs came on after the whistle blew, which appears to be the case, one or both needed to say, "Hang on. Let's talk about this before we leave the court." There's no rush, especially in that situation. If the crew eventually determines the game is over so be it but all three officials need to have a voice at that time before leaving the court.

I apologize for starting a new thread. I did not previously see it or recognize it by this title. Thank You!

For what it's worth, the UIL assigns crews/chapters to regional games. The chapter this crew is from is not from a large metro area and in fact is likely from a very small area. That's just how things work here. This crew is not in the chapter that assigns games for either of these teams in the regular season.

Looks like the losing school got an explanation and visit from the state body:

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasne...nclick_check=1

So I put my fist in the air and blow my whistle for a foul and don't ever hear the horn go off, and fully intend on going to the table to report the foul, but a partner just waves the shot off and decides the game is over?

1. Why did the guy who called the foul not stop everyone and discuss it?

2. Why did the guy who waved everything off not ask what the calling official had before they ran off?

I am far from perfect, but I can't imagine ending a game like that.

This is just wrong:

I'm not saying this was done correctly, but if a game is over, it's over. I'm not stopping at the table to check with the scorers.

I don't live right there anymore, but when I did, the Dallas chapter handled Celina - which is just north of Little Elm (where I lived). (And the Fort Worth Chapter butted right up against it on the West)... is this no longer the case? Has some small chapter from north of Dallas eaten away part of the Dallas or Fort Worth chapters' areas?

The Dallas chapter has become much smaller - the North Texas chapter handles Celina and Argyle and just about everything north of the George Bush freeway up to the Oklahoma border. North Texas has become a powerhouse chapter in the state, for good reason. A few years ago, North Texas had 50-80 members - now they have over 400.

Wow. Things change fast. I would have had to join them if I'd stayed. ALL of my work was north of GBT.

Again, the importance of communication. I think your first question is the most important. Don't hide your light under a bushel in that situation. Tell your partners "Guys, I had a foul before the horn" and if you're 150% sure you go with that to the grave. If you're not the R and (s)he decides not to go with what you had at least you tried.

You would have switched regardless - it's such a better chapter.

Each school or district chooses which chapter they want to use during the season. Playoffs are awarded to chapters by the uil based on test scores and other factors. Most of the time you are sent to a region your chapter normally does not work (but sometimes if both coaches ask for a certain chapter they might get it). The better raked your chapter the more games you get. Crews from every chapter are assigned to the state tournament for at least one game.

The crew in this game were from the Temple chapter (for the non-Texans that's near Waco about 75 miles north of Austin & 150 miles south of DFW). This is not a small town but it is also not a large metro area. There are very few of our larger schools in this area but plenty of schools the size of this game so experience was not an issue.

With all due respect, having the same size schools is insignificant. Celina has been a state tourney regular - not sure about Argyle, but clearly they are very good. I'm pretty certain this crew hasn't seen a girl's game like this all season - maybe ever.

I thought Smitty just told us it was the NTex chapter ... and why in the world would the Temple chapter work north of Dallas?

I said that North Texas handles Celina and Argyle during the season. But Rich is right - the crew that was assigned this regional game was from Temple. The UIL assigns crews to regional games.

Got it.

So does the UIL assigns the chapter for each post season game and then someone within the chapter assigns the officials, or does the UIL assign the officials?

Should this matter? Do these guys work boys games?

I don't mean to turn this into a boys vs. girls thing, but top-level girls games remind me more of decent boys basketball. It's the girls ball at the bottom of the talent spectrum that's a whole different animal.

Ever? I, like Rich, am not going to make this a boys/girls thing either especially since I officiate both at the HS level. If the officials on this crew have ever worked a basketball game with good teams - and I'm assuming they have to have been assigned a championship of any kind - then this game and this situation shouldn't have been a problem.

As I understand it, the UIL assigns a chapter to a regional tournament site before the season starts. It's up to the chapter to decide who the actual officials will be.

I should have been more clear and not used the "girls" qualifier. I meant in the sense of it being a very intense game - very significant, and a packed house like this. I don't know - maybe they have been there before. If they hadn't, this is a tough way to be tossed into the fire.

One would hope.

Personally, I love this time of the season. I wish we could skip from February 1 right to the playoffs. :D

But I was recently reminded of how I felt during my first postseason game (even if I can't remember where and when it was) -- one of our 3 on Tuesday was working his first and he seemed pretty nervous beforehand.

I'm well aware of something else, too: Anyone is just one situation or play away from having a video plastered all over ESPN or YouTube.

Something about the playoffs really ups my own focus and I have always had my best games of the season during the playoffs. I need to try and find a way to capture that focus during the regular season - it comes and goes. That's my own issue.

I am not allowed to really talk about the OP scenario in public - we've all been told as much in our chapter.

Yabut that hoses us scrubs who sit on the sidelines for the playoffs. ;)

Or one bad partner....

I see what you're saying there.

Fortunately most that see a video like that realize who the smart one is.

No. Each chapter submits a list of 10 - 15 refs that are their top ranked during the season. Each region and the UIL work together to select which chapters will get that region and then the uil chooses 4-6 refs from the list to work semis and finals in various combinations. Therefs for the state tournament comes from the same names.

However, if this is before the regional tournament level then the two schools mutually agree on a chapter (or uil picks if they can't) and the chapter selects the refs. But, I don't know of a chapter that doesn't send their best because a lot is on the line for the chapters as well.

For the most part, the more.professional and highly regarded your chapter is for officiating the more post season asdignments you get. While the UIL will give at least one game go every chapter for the state tourney, some get more games as well as games of more importance (championships or higher classes).