Anyone see this? (Video)

JetMetFan

zm1283 wrote
High School Basketball Playoff Game Ends In Stupid, Ridiculous Way

Okay, so now we know (from the article embedded in the Deadspin story): UIL says the crew determined time expired before the contact.

That still doesn't clear up anything. Last shot responsibility belonged to C since he was opposite the table, though they may have decided to let T take it since the action was in C's primary. C and L looked genuinely shocked by the whistle - as they should have been since it came before the LEDs on the backboard lit up.

My guess is T wasn't waving off the shot because his partners didn't seem to know what was happening until more than a few seconds after the play was blown dead.

At any rate, that's where the "judgment" part of UIL's statement comes in. Saying time expired wasn't great judgment but it was still judgment.

kwv001

deecee wrote
Just from this ending I would be curious as to the overall officiating of the game up to that point. This isn't what I would expect from varsity level officials.

More than that. I thought one of the first stories I read, said a trip to the final four was on the line, so this game must have been deep into their state tournament.

JetMetFan

I know, I know...I can't let this go.

1. If the explanation was the crew determined time expired before any contact, why not just say that within 24 hours after the game?

2. This is more of a teaching point. If the officials who didn't make the call were aware the LEDs came on after the whistle blew, which appears to be the case, one or both needed to say, "Hang on. Let's talk about this before we leave the court." There's no rush, especially in that situation. If the crew eventually determines the game is over so be it but all three officials need to have a voice at that time before leaving the court.

Johnny Ringo

I apologize for starting a new thread. I did not previously see it or recognize it by this title. Thank You!

Smitty

For what it's worth, the UIL assigns crews/chapters to regional games. The chapter this crew is from is not from a large metro area and in fact is likely from a very small area. That's just how things work here. This crew is not in the chapter that assigns games for either of these teams in the regular season.

zm1283

Looks like the losing school got an explanation and visit from the state body:

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/02/uil-officials-visit-celina-provide-explanation-closure-after-officiating-flap.html/?nclick_check=1

“One of the UIL officials had talked to the head official of the game, and he said he did blow his whistle and raise his hand for a foul call,” Davis said. “He didn’t see the time or hear the buzzer go off. He looked over at his co-official, who then waved his arms to indicate the game was over. That’s when they said ‘Let’s go’ and took off.

So I put my fist in the air and blow my whistle for a foul and don't ever hear the horn go off, and fully intend on going to the table to report the foul, but a partner just waves the shot off and decides the game is over?

1. Why did the guy who called the foul not stop everyone and discuss it?

2. Why did the guy who waved everything off not ask what the calling official had before they ran off?

I am far from perfect, but I can't imagine ending a game like that.

Adam

This is just wrong:

“The UIL said the referees should have stopped at the scorer’s table to check with them. That’s something that should have been done. And that’s where they didn’t handle it correctly. And the part about knowing that there was a whistle blown to call a foul does say a lot.”

I'm not saying this was done correctly, but if a game is over, it's over. I'm not stopping at the table to check with the scorers.

MD Longhorn

Smitty wrote
For what it's worth, the UIL assigns crews/chapters to regional games. The chapter this crew is from is not from a large metro area and in fact is likely from a very small area. That's just how things work here. This crew is not in the chapter that assigns games for either of these teams in the regular season.

I don't live right there anymore, but when I did, the Dallas chapter handled Celina - which is just north of Little Elm (where I lived). (And the Fort Worth Chapter butted right up against it on the West)... is this no longer the case? Has some small chapter from north of Dallas eaten away part of the Dallas or Fort Worth chapters' areas?

Smitty

MD Longhorn wrote
I don't live right there anymore, but when I did, the Dallas chapter handled Celina - which is just north of Little Elm (where I lived). (And the Fort Worth Chapter butted right up against it on the West)... is this no longer the case? Has some small chapter from north of Dallas eaten away part of the Dallas or Fort Worth chapters' areas?

The Dallas chapter has become much smaller - the North Texas chapter handles Celina and Argyle and just about everything north of the George Bush freeway up to the Oklahoma border. North Texas has become a powerhouse chapter in the state, for good reason. A few years ago, North Texas had 50-80 members - now they have over 400.

MD Longhorn

Smitty wrote
The Dallas chapter has become much smaller - the North Texas chapter handles Celina and Argyle and just about everything north of the George Bush freeway up to the Oklahoma border. North Texas has become a powerhouse chapter in the state, for good reason. A few years ago, North Texas had 50-80 members - now they have over 400.

Wow. Things change fast. I would have had to join them if I'd stayed. ALL of my work was north of GBT.

JetMetFan

zm1283 wrote
Looks like the losing school got an explanation and visit from the state body:

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/02/uil-officials-visit-celina-provide-explanation-closure-after-officiating-flap.html/?nclick_check=1

So I put my fist in the air and blow my whistle for a foul and don't ever hear the horn go off, and fully intend on going to the table to report the foul, but a partner just waves the shot off and decides the game is over?

1. Why did the guy who called the foul not stop everyone and discuss it?

2. Why did the guy who waved everything off not ask what the calling official had before they ran off?

I am far from perfect, but I can't imagine ending a game like that.

Again, the importance of communication. I think your first question is the most important. Don't hide your light under a bushel in that situation. Tell your partners "Guys, I had a foul before the horn" and if you're 150% sure you go with that to the grave. If you're not the R and (s)he decides not to go with what you had at least you tried.

Smitty

MD Longhorn wrote
Wow. Things change fast. I would have had to join them if I'd stayed. ALL of my work was north of GBT.

You would have switched regardless - it's such a better chapter.

Rich1

MD Longhorn wrote
I don't live right there anymore, but when I did, the Dallas chapter handled Celina - which is just north of Little Elm (where I lived). (And the Fort Worth Chapter butted right up against it on the West)... is this no longer the case? Has some small chapter from north of Dallas eaten away part of the Dallas or Fort Worth chapters' areas?

Each school or district chooses which chapter they want to use during the season. Playoffs are awarded to chapters by the uil based on test scores and other factors. Most of the time you are sent to a region your chapter normally does not work (but sometimes if both coaches ask for a certain chapter they might get it). The better raked your chapter the more games you get. Crews from every chapter are assigned to the state tournament for at least one game.

The crew in this game were from the Temple chapter (for the non-Texans that's near Waco about 75 miles north of Austin & 150 miles south of DFW). This is not a small town but it is also not a large metro area. There are very few of our larger schools in this area but plenty of schools the size of this game so experience was not an issue.

Smitty

Rich1 wrote
This is not a small town but it is also not a large metro area. There are very few of our larger schools in this area but plenty of schools the size of this game so experience was not an issue.

With all due respect, having the same size schools is insignificant. Celina has been a state tourney regular - not sure about Argyle, but clearly they are very good. I'm pretty certain this crew hasn't seen a girl's game like this all season - maybe ever.

MD Longhorn

Rich1 wrote
Each school or district chooses which chapter they want to use during the season. Playoffs are awarded to chapters by the uil based on test scores and other factors. Most of the time you are sent to a region your chapter normally does not work (but sometimes if both coaches ask for a certain chapter they might get it). The better raked your chapter the more games you get. Crews from every chapter are assigned to the state tournament for at least one game.

The crew in this game were from the Temple chapter (for the non-Texans that's near Waco about 75 miles north of Austin & 150 miles south of DFW). This is not a small town but it is also not a large metro area. There are very few of our larger schools in this area but plenty of schools the size of this game so experience was not an issue.

I thought Smitty just told us it was the NTex chapter ... and why in the world would the Temple chapter work north of Dallas?

Smitty

MD Longhorn wrote
I thought Smitty just told us it was the NTex chapter ... and why in the world would the Temple chapter work north of Dallas?

I said that North Texas handles Celina and Argyle during the season. But Rich is right - the crew that was assigned this regional game was from Temple. The UIL assigns crews to regional games.

MD Longhorn

Smitty wrote
I said that North Texas handles Celina and Argyle during the season. But Rich is right - the crew that was assigned this regional game was from Temple. The UIL assigns crews to regional games.

Got it.

Nikki

Rich1 wrote
Each school or district chooses which chapter they want to use during the season. Playoffs are awarded to chapters by the uil based on test scores and other factors. Most of the time you are sent to a region your chapter normally does not work (but sometimes if both coaches ask for a certain chapter they might get it). The better raked your chapter the more games you get. Crews from every chapter are assigned to the state tournament for at least one game.

The crew in this game were from the Temple chapter (for the non-Texans that's near Waco about 75 miles north of Austin & 150 miles south of DFW). This is not a small town but it is also not a large metro area. There are very few of our larger schools in this area but plenty of schools the size of this game so experience was not an issue.

So does the UIL assigns the chapter for each post season game and then someone within the chapter assigns the officials, or does the UIL assign the officials?

Rich

Smitty wrote
With all due respect, having the same size schools is insignificant. Celina has been a state tourney regular - not sure about Argyle, but clearly they are very good. I'm pretty certain this crew hasn't seen a girl's game like this all season - maybe ever.

Should this matter? Do these guys work boys games?

I don't mean to turn this into a boys vs. girls thing, but top-level girls games remind me more of decent boys basketball. It's the girls ball at the bottom of the talent spectrum that's a whole different animal.

JetMetFan

Smitty wrote
With all due respect, having the same size schools is insignificant. Celina has been a state tourney regular - not sure about Argyle, but clearly they are very good. I'm pretty certain this crew hasn't seen a girl's game like this all season - maybe ever.

Rich wrote
Should this matter? Do these guys work boys games?

I don't mean to turn this into a boys vs. girls thing, but top-level girls games remind me more of decent boys basketball. It's the girls ball at the bottom of the talent spectrum that's a whole different animal.

Ever? I, like Rich, am not going to make this a boys/girls thing either especially since I officiate both at the HS level. If the officials on this crew have ever worked a basketball game with good teams - and I'm assuming they have to have been assigned a championship of any kind - then this game and this situation shouldn't have been a problem.

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