Do you guess?
 

Two whistle game. I am Trail opposite table. A1 is dribbling near the sideline tableside and barely in his frontcourt when B1 steals the ball. Just over the centerline B1 is able to dribble past A1 and is approximately 3 feet ahead of him when B1 trips . Due to the quick turnover, I am viewing the play from roughly 90* and cannot detect any contact. It looked awful, but not seeing any contact I have to believe he tripped on his own. Anybody believe it is proper (for game management's sake, to keep yourself out of hot water, etc) to assume/call a foul on A1? I mean, it must certainly have happened, right?

That spot on the floor is known as the toughest spot in 2-man. I've adopted a position to be closer to the ball, but more in the BC when officiating that location. This adjustment hasn't let me down in 12 years.

Call what you see. See what you call. Having said that, I have used experience to bail me out of a call before. And I've seen others do it. These times are rare though. You have to decide for yourself because if you're wrong, you have a lot of explaining to do as your administer the subsequent throw-in.

assuming a foul that didn't happen can get you in just as much hot water as missing a foul. I'm not going to assume a foul if I saw nothing.

However, if I saw something (but not everything), I'd be more inclined to make an assumption. For example, if I saw what looked like minimal contact but then the player goes down, I might have a foul (assuming that contact may have been worse than what I saw). But like I said, if I saw no contact and a player went down, I've got nothing.

1) How "minimal" the contact was has very little to do whether it was a foul. If a player goes down, then the contact caused a disadvantage and should be a foul. You don't need to assume the contact was worse than you saw.

2) Seeing no contact is different from not seeing contact. It's the latter that's being discussed.

I had a similar situation last night. I was the T on a backcourt throw-in under the hoop. She inbounds and a quick pass and the ball is at the 3 point line on the other side. There is a block/charge situation, there was contact initiated by the dribbler, did the defense have LGP......ugh!

I was hustling down the floor, but was in no position to make the call. 2 person crew, so my partner was on the baseline, but had girls between him and the play. I no called it. And the coach let me know it, I explained that I didn't have a good enough look at it.

Was I right to no call this?

pfan

ps, this is why you need 3 person :D

Understand this point. However, contact, followed by a player going down doesn't always mean that it should be a foul. It happens quite frequently that a defender attempts to draw a charge by exagerating the effect of contact. If the official sees the whole play clearly, we would have no call. My point was the same here. If I thought that the contact was minimal, and then the player goes down, you have to make an assumption. Either 1) the player went down on his/her own or exagerated the contact or 2) the contact was what caused the player to go down. In this case, I'm generally assuming option 2. In other cases (e.g. a block/charge situation), I might assume option 1.

Don't. Ever. Guess.....ever.

I take this philosophy from football but I think it applies in basketball also.

It is better to miss a foul than to incorrectly call one that isn't there. Don't guess.

Although the OP's play is across the court from T (new Lead), new Trail should have a better angle and could come get this.

Easy to say.

At times, especially working 2-person, I do not have the look I would really like to have. I'm not going to pass on something I'm 95% certain is a foul only because I don't have the angle I would like in a perfect world.

Have I called trips where I didn't specifically see a leg hit a leg? Yes, I have. Has it bitten me in the behind? Not yet.

Maybe I'm wrong in calling this a "guess." Is it the look I'd like to have? No. Do I feel I have enough pieces of the puzzle to make the picture? Yes.

On April 5, 2010, Duke defeated Butler 61-59 in the NCAA Championship Game (remember the Butler half-cout shot that almost went in?). NCAA-M Officiating "Boss" John Adams reviewed the game tape and made some interesting discoveries:
1) when the officials had a whistle, their call accuracy was 90%
2) when they did not have a whistle, their call accuracy was 50%
3) he found that the reason why the crew of John Cahill, Tom Eades, & Ted Valentine did not blow their whistle on those specific plays was because THEY COULD NOT CLEARLY SEE THE PLAY (they simply weren't going to guess).

As a result, Adams has became convinced that:
A) the best officials HAVE to be mobile enough to be in position to see the plays (older, heavier, slower, etc. officials have seen a dramatic decrease in their assignments).
b) when you guess, you are really only 50% right.

Rich, if you want to classify 95% sure as a "guess", go ahead...I don't think that is what the thread is referring to.....

In 2 man as the trail you have to move towards the center of the court to get an angle at plays in your primary on the opposite side of the court. There are times I have found myself in the half court circle.

I know it's not. But when does something become a guess? Is it 100% or 0% sure or is there a gray area in-between?

Mobility is a strange thing. There are cases of people not being able to move quickly enough and there are cases of people who officiate with nails in their shoes who, for whatever reason, DON'T move. In HS games, you see plenty of both.

Unfortunately for John Adams, he has absolutely no control over the number or quality of assignments any official gets during the regular season.

I work with a guy like this. I sometimes wonder if he's looking to flex??? I can usually get a good angle working down or backing up as the T. He's gotten trapped there before on a turnover...

Sh!t happens. It's what you get when you try and officiate a competitive game with 2 officials. I've been caught too, but what you gonna do?

Agreed. Its 2 man. Do what works for ya!

I'll work over as far as I need to go. The farther across the court I go, the more I move back. Usually if I'm in the center circle or farther, I'm in the backcourt.

I've gotten caught once or twice this season and have had to let players pass me. Seems like a reasonable trade-off.

Cho Cho Charlie Was His Name We Hear ...
 

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, we've been strongly encouraged to have a whistle on a train wreck, even if we have to guess. I real feel awkward doing this, but I'm not in charge.

I haven't had to go quite that far...but I agree. Unfortunately it seems every time I have had to do that in a boys game there is a quick change in direction and I find myself in the middle of a lot of really fast young men coming right at me. I just brace for impact while hoping they see me soon enough...then bust it as much as possible to get a somewhat decent view of things at the other end.

Only once did someone not see me soon enough. I got up quickly, but it took a bit for me to back to normal. That guy was solid as a rock.

In keeping with NCAA this year, you called a block on yourself, correct? :)

Shouldn't have braced himself.

"Take it like a man"

I was told by two very experienced officials that I was "painting the logo" when I was working Trail in 2 man. They suggested moving into the backcourt for a better angle instead of coming so far onto the floor. They said it is better to be further away from play, but just move back to get the angle.

I'm pretty experienced and that sounds like nonsense.

Baloney. You move to where you need to be to get a good look. There have been times in the backcourt with pressure and my as T I come up almost on the same side as the L.

I don't officiate and worry about what may happen, as it pertains to getting beat. I only worry about what *is* happening.

There's a difference between positioning in the backcourt (the rule of thirds) and officiating from the circle in the frontcourt. By officiating from the circle, or even close to it, you are right in the way if there is a deflection and turnover.

Obviously in 2 man you are going to come further onto the court as Trail than in 3 man. Still, being near the circle is simply too far.

If you have a competitive matchup just above the FT extended on the far side of the court, you need to have distance AND the angle to officiate that matchup. Same with a half court trap on the far side.

You may think you can credibly officiate that from a few steps from the sideline, but I think you're mistaken. I still work about 40% of my games 2-person. I end up in the circle or even beyond it at times. Much of that time I end up in the backcourt when I go that wide, but not always.

Agree.

With a play in that location, your best position will be at least as far into the court as the circle, maybe even beyond it just a bit. You might also go into the backcourt depending on how high or low the play is. Being more then 1/2 the width of court away from the play is just too far away to have a good view.

To get any sort of angle you'd need to see in a trap by moving just toward the backcourt while staying a few feet from the sideline, you could end up being 50-60 feet from the play. Plus, the distance you'd need to move to any adjustments you'd need to make to maintain a view through the players are multiplied by the distance. By moving only towards the backcourt, you pretty much give up any chance of improving your angle as the players shift.

Staying well on your side of the court would be akin to the leading covering a play in one corner while positioned on the opposite side of the paint.

And so what if you get caught in the middle on a turn over. That is rare. Far more common is that you'll not be able to adequately cover the trap on the far side. If you do get stuck on a turnover, just go down the other side to cover the play at the other end. If you have a good partner, they will see what happened and will shift to the other side. If they don't, you can slide back across once you get to the endline.

I was hoping you'd post as I know you work a significant amount of varsity basketball 2-person (even more than I do these days, I'm guessing, since we're working *some* of our games 3-person and I tend to seek those conferences out these days when I can). Is everything in OR still 2-person at the HS level?

One of the first things we teach officials is that angle is king, but distance is important, if only for credibility when we make a call. If I'm making a call on the far side of the court, I'd better be over there and I'd better be closing as I make a call.

Yes, our HS is 99% 2-person. Those of us who have done 3-person in college have been demo'ing 3-person (sometimes with one HS official who hasn't done much/any 3-person) in a few beginning of the season Jamborees in the hopes of getting the coaches to demand ii...and most of them do want it.

Yep. And as I said, above, the farther you are from the play, the less you can adjust your position for a better angle. So, to be able to keep a good angle, you just can't be far away.