Video request: Block/Charge BYU at St. Mary's 5:45 remaining in first half.
 

When someone is able to post the video clip, we can debate the proper call.

video added
 

Here's the play...


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Is the new college POE to do away with the PC foul??

Get out your credit cards.

They should've left the block/charge rules alone. I'm still failing to see what the problem was that this "solution" was supposed to address.

I had written this play down for further review but I think I got distracted washing baby bottles or something.

I'm shippin' up to Boston...

While watching the game, I thought that it was an obvious player control foul. Seeing the replay verifies that. The defender could not have done better.

Thanks for posting the video for everyone on the forum. The video aspect that a couple of our posters have added to this site in the past couple of seasons has greatly increased the educational value here. Great work, guys!

Travel? :rolleyes: :eek:

Wow.....that is a charge all the way.

Peace

Charge it

So, are some officials judging the "upward motion/movement" of a ballhandler by the movement of the hands and ball, while others are judging the upward moition/movement by watching the feet of the ballhandler? The more I see such calls, the greater the inconsistencies seem to be, from call to call . . .

BTW, I agree with a PC on this one.

On behalf of the video providers, you're welcome. :)

Question for the NCAAM officials in the group. What sort of feedback have you been getting on Arbiter's Central Hub about the block/charge calls with the new guidelines? I've been curious about what the powers that be have been saying.

I do not think the rule has been well defined. I think if anything it has been very inconsistently applied because of that lack of definition or clarification of that definition. This was a stupid rule and was more reactionary to the media than coming up with a solid reasoning for this rule to be changed.

Peace

When in doubt, call a block.

That is fine, but there shouldn't have even been even the smallest doubt on this one.

This should have been easy.

Peace

Agreed. I try to bring up these type of plays in my college pre-games to point out that it is still possible for defenders to draw charges from airborne shooters.

I personally feel way too many blocks have been called this season.

By making it so officials call 80% or more of these plays blocks, the powers that be have begun the process of getting teams to realize there is no benefit to playing defense that close to the basket. Scoring and viewership will rise, and everybody will be happy. Maybe, BNR, you did not get that memo!:D

Primary defenders drawing charges = same as years before

Secondary defenders drawing charges = way down

Learn to block shots or get out of the way.

Can't agree with that. I've seen primary defenders get called for a lot more blocks as well.
Huh? Isn't the essence of defense preventing the opponent from going where they want to go?

It looks like the offensive player just runs right over the defense. I would go PC on this play.

Camron, I agree with you but Toren isn't far off based on some of the calls we've seen/posted. It reminds me of a comment attributed to Calipari at the start of the season. He apparently told his kids if they don't block the shot just get out of the way.

Which is, frankly, a stupid concept for defense. Most defenders are taught to keep their feet and get into a position to box out (talented shot blockers are the exception, not the rule). Jumpy would-be-shot-blockers are the first guys to get out of position in the paint.

I can only hope that this changes. Again.

The NCAA needs to change the rule back to what it was before. They probably won't do that, but they need to. There is more inconsistency now than ever before on these plays, and it's their own fault.

I've learned that the NCAA can't just leave well enough alone and they have to constantly tinker with things that aren't broken.

Wow. As a basketball official you don't get PCs handed to you on a platter very often. That was one of them.

First, it's NCAAM. Don't blame my side for this ;)

Second, I think the worst part of the rule change is it has otherwise capable officials thinking too much. I worked Part I of an NCAAW/NCAAM DH over the weekend. The officials for the men's game were in a serious discussion about plays like this as they headed out to the court. It was more of a panicked discussion like, "I'm not sure how to call these things." That's not a good feeling in mid-February.

They do this in football, too.

At times NFHS is too slow to change and I think the NCAA embraces change just for the sake of change.

I figured they probably did.

It seems like they change more mechanics back and forth in baseball than rules. They have switched mechanics one year then gone back to the old way several times recently with no explanation....just because.

This play really isn't even a "rule discussion" type of play. The new rule wording really shouldn't have even come into play here. This is a really easy PC call, and I cannot think of any reason why this official went block (other than the fact that we all blow a call every now and then).

This play reminds me of a big dawg in my association who defaulted to block when he thought the defender was "flopping" in order to "discourage" such behavior. Thankfully he changed that when a bigger dawg called him on it. Interesting to watch that conversation...

It does because of A1's upward movement with his hands as he was about to become airborne, at least that's my interpretation of the new guidelines.

The new guideline caused this without a doubt. To me, the calling official on the video, when it goes to slow motion, is looking more at the dribbler than seeing the whole play. Again, to me, he is watching for that critical gathering moment. My question would simply be what did the defender do wrong or illegal? This is a charge. Plays like this is why I am glad I work on the women's side.

One other thing I thought of with the NCAAM guidelines (and I'd need an NCAAM official to answer).

*A1 starts a drive from the C's side, gets past B1 and contacts B2 who attains or is trying to attain LGP in the lane on the C's side of the basket. From what I understand for the men, the L is supposed to make the block/PC call in this case. If I'm right about that isn't the call that much more difficult because of the new guideline with the hands/arms rising on the airborne shooter?

yes

&

yes

The defender was there before the upward movement began, and never moved. So the new wording shouldn't really matter.

In fact, the defender has LGP while the last dribble was bouncing on the floor....long before upward motion began.