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-   -   Wanted to give a T (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97255-wanted-give-t.html)

Rich Wed Feb 12, 2014 05:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 922520)
I know a lot of people, myself included, who consider THAT swearing, without question. For basketball purposes, though, I'd consider that a Roman Law thing.

Then again, the Romans killed Jesus, but I digress.
I consider it swearing as much as if the coach cried out, "Flying Spaghetti Monster!"

rockyroad Wed Feb 12, 2014 05:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 922544)
I consider it swearing as much as if the coach cried out, "Flying Spaghetti Monster!"
Heathen. :p

stick Wed Feb 12, 2014 07:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeremy (Post 922492)
I do admit I should have looked towards the bench and I didn't. Rookie mistake. After watching the video I still don't know if I would have immediately granted a timeout because I couldn't hear him or see him make any signal that he wanted a timeout.
In a situation like that one thing I do if I happen to be the trail or the center and in front of their bench is hover around close to him. This way there's a better chance to hear or catch a time out call right away. But you must look toward him, especially in a noisy gym that has bad accoustics.

stick Wed Feb 12, 2014 07:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeremy (Post 922476)
Red team down by 9 and player hits a 3 point shot. Red now down 6 pts. I was trail on tableside and I didn't immediately hear the red coach yell for a timeout because crowd was cheering and announcer was commenting on the basket. I grant the red team timeout but after about 2 seconds ran off the clock. There is now 5.1 seconds on the clock. He does a slight stare down on me, flips his clipboard back on one of the chairs and says "Jesus" very sarcastically. I know that isn't considered swearing in this day and age but I still consider that inappropriate. I wanted to give a T for the stare and the clipboard flip but I just reported the timeout because I didn't want a T to decide the game. Did I do the right thing?
Did he slam the clipboard down? If he did that coach earns himself a T from me no matter what the game situation is. It's one thing to dispute, challenge and try to work us for calls, that is expected. But slamming a clipboard is disrespecting us. We are not second class citizens and should never tolerate that kind of childish behavior. .

gojeremy Wed Feb 12, 2014 09:02pm
He didn't slam it down. He just threw it across his body to a nearby seat that was away from the floor. The more I watch the video I realize I was closer to him than I thought and a quick glance over and I would have realized he wanted a timeout even though he didn't signal. I definitely learned something from this scenario.

biggravy Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 922479)
IMHO ... you "want" too much. You should not "want" a T to decide (or not to decide) a game. Too many people consider calling a T as a different act from calling a foul. It's not. Call the game. If his stare-down warranted a T (I doubt it did ... but this is your call, not mine) - then call it. If his flipping of a clipboard in anger warranted a T (after the stare - I'm thinking it did, but again, it's your call) - then call it. If him giving you the name of his favorite deity warranted a T (especially in addition to the other two acts), call it.

Don't fail to call it because you didn't want it to decide the game any more than you would fail to call a travel because you didn't want it to decide the game.

If coach decides to get a T with his team down 6 and 5.1 seconds remaining - that's on him. HE cost his team the opportunity to somehow finish this miracle comeback --- not you.

PS - it's not the swear word (usually) that warrants a T (imho) - it's the manner, the attitude, etc - and it's who it's directed at.
This. He decided, not you. That being said, you are a first year official and you learned a valuable lesson about game awareness. There are those who say game awareness is not our problem. The coach needs to be more vocal, etc. Yep. Him being more vocal would have helped, but game awareness is so important. In that spot, when the ball tickled twine my eyes as trail go to the clock, then immediately to the coach. Visiting coach? This may be a time back on the clock situation ;) Home team calls TO in that spot, the clock is probably already stopped! ;) game awareness.

Ref16 Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 922494)
Then the second part of my last post applies: that's on him.

Something else to consider: I'm assuming this is a 2-person game. One of you has to be standing tableside and either near (the L) or in front of (the T) his bench. As Rich said, be ready for it.

Another point regarding his actions: I'm not saying if he questions your birth or heritage quietly while you're standing next to him that he shouldn't get whacked but if he's being "visual" let it call itself.
I agree...

And for the record, if a coach tosses/flips/throws/slams his clipboard after staring me down-it is gonna be automatic-and 100% his fault that he got the T. Coaches can get frustrated and be intense without showing the officials up and/or looking like a jackass.

Next time maybe he will control his emotions. But the way you described this situation, regardless of whether or not you were looking for the t.o. (Which you should make a habit of in the future IMO) is extremely unsportsmanlike and getting a T in my book.

gojeremy Thu Feb 13, 2014 06:15am
At what point of the game should I be glancing towards the benches? With 1 or 2 minutes remaining?

BillyMac Thu Feb 13, 2014 07:01am
Walk A Mile In Another Man's Moccasins ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeremy (Post 922576)
At what point of the game should I be glancing towards the benches? With 1 or 2 minutes remaining?
It could be in the first period. When the other team goes on a 10-2 run. When the other team begins to press and his kids' seem confused. Just pretend that you're the coach, put yourself in his shoes, and decide when he, or you, would request a timeout.

MD Longhorn Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeremy (Post 922576)
At what point of the game should I be glancing towards the benches? With 1 or 2 minutes remaining?
Time doesn't matter - you'll get a feel for game awareness as you go. You'll sense when coaches are likely to want a timeout.

But with a minute or less left (or after a team has started fouling to stop the clock ... or at any point after that first timeout in crunch-time), start expecting the timeout. That said ... the 1 or 2 seconds they gain from you looking over is probably going to only be critical inside a minute - and more critical as you get closer to the end. I don't think anyone's going to go clipboard throwing if their timeout was at 1:56 instead of 1:58. Maybe not even 0:56 vs 0:58. But 0:08 vs 0:06 - probably.

stripes Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44am
I would also remind the coach that he has 5 players on the court who can request a TO AND who are used to listening for his voice. Any of the players can get right in front of you and request the TO. This is especially pertinent in a loud gym.

While I agree that you should be situationally aware, requesting a TO is on him.

Rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes (Post 922607)
I would also remind the coach that he has 5 players on the court who can request a TO AND who are used to listening for his voice. Any of the players can get right in front of you and request the TO. This is especially pertinent in a loud gym.

While I agree that you should be situationally aware, requesting a TO is on him.
No offense, but this attitude / mindset just doesn't cut it. With the rules as they are and with the expectation that top officials be situationally aware, it's ON US to be aware and expecting a request. No excuses.

stick Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gojeremy (Post 922560)
He didn't slam it down. He just threw it across his body to a nearby seat that was away from the floor. The more I watch the video I realize I was closer to him than I thought and a quick glance over and I would have realized he wanted a timeout even though he didn't signal. I definitely learned something from this scenario.
Another poster put it correctly, imagine what you would do if you were in his shoes. A coach with basketball sense would want a time out right away!! You being a first year official just learned what to do and how it works. Next time you'll do it right!! But I must say based on the coach flinging his clipboard and staring you down I'd have T'd the guy up.

stripes Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 922612)
No offense, but this attitude / mindset just doesn't cut it. With the rules as they are and with the expectation that top officials be situationally aware, it's ON US to be aware and expecting a request. No excuses.

I disagree. We should be aware of situations where a coach might want a TO, but it is the coach's responsibility to get our attention if they want a TO. Not the other way around.

I have had plenty of games that were so loud you could not hear anyone and I have had plenty of players run up to me at the coach's request to get a TO. It works out fine. Coaches understand the realities of the game and will do what they can to get what they want.

Rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 01:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes (Post 922631)
I disagree. We should be aware of situations where a coach might want a TO, but it is the coach's responsibility to get our attention if they want a TO. Not the other way around.

I have had plenty of games that were so loud you could not hear anyone and I have had plenty of players run up to me at the coach's request to get a TO. It works out fine. Coaches understand the realities of the game and will do what they can to get what they want.
Disagree all you want, but when you miss that timeout the first question will revolve around YOUR situational awareness.


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