Dead Ball Officiating

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by j51969

A Seton kid

the Smith-Peter kid instigated much of it

thrown around by a Harrisburg player

How many teams were involved in this game? I count 3 at least.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

How many teams were involved in this game? I count 3 at least.

Smith-Peter was one of the kid's last name.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Smith-Peter was one of the kid's last name.

And the Smith-Peter kid is the coach's son from Harrisburg. That is the same coach that was also suspended for the post season in 2014 unless he followed some requirements to be reinstated.

Peace

[ballgame99]

I believe the kid plays for Southern Illinois this year as a freshman.

[zm1283]

Smithpeters is a player, not a team. Yes, he plays at SIU this year.

[j51969]

I would agree with MyTwoCents that making goods calls will handle this 90% of the time. Also, at no time am I implying that any of the officials on the game had a racial motivation toward the outcome.

JRUT you are spot on…..

All three guys were from Southern IL. Two from Litchfield area and one was near Edwardsville. Total up the population of all three towns they are from and it’s less than 6000. These two teams were 1 and 2 all year and likely to meet in the finals. If not, it just would have been another team similar in social make up. IHSA failed when assigning the officials to this game. The fact that they didn’t have at least 1 African American official on the game was just plain dumb. Top that with three officials who don’t officiate contests with this level of speed, quickness, and athletism and you have a disaster. The basketball they are seeing down in Southern IL (which I did for 3 years) is about as different as high school is to college. I am not saying it’s not good ball, just different. The players, parents, coaches, and environments’ are all different. I grew up playing and officiating basketball in Indianapolis and outlining areas. It is not uncommon to have a game in a gym that seats 5000 (and they fill them). Anyone who says basketball is basketball and you just call the game the same way is just clueless. I can’t for the life of me believe there isn’t 1 African American officials who is not only good enough, but should also be rewarded for his/her contribution to the game. The officials, coaches, and schools were all publicly reprimanded for this absurd display. Sounds like the IHSA should reprimand itself for failing to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by j51969

I would agree with MyTwoCents that making goods calls will handle this 90% of the time. Also, at no time am I implying that any of the officials on the game had a racial motivation toward the outcome.

JRUT you are spot on…..

All three guys were from Southern IL. Two from Litchfield area and one was near Edwardsville. Total up the population of all three towns they are from and it’s less than 6000. These two teams were 1 and 2 all year and likely to meet in the finals. If not, it just would have been another team similar in social make up. IHSA failed when assigning the officials to this game. The fact that they didn’t have at least 1 African American official on the game was just plain dumb. Top that with three officials who don’t officiate contests with this level of speed, quickness, and athletism and you have a disaster. The basketball they are seeing down in Southern IL (which I did for 3 years) is about as different as high school is to college. I am not saying it’s not good ball, just different. The players, parents, coaches, and environments’ are all different. I grew up playing and officiating basketball in Indianapolis and outlining areas. It is not uncommon to have a game in a gym that seats 5000 (and they fill them). Anyone who says basketball is basketball and you just call the game the same way is just clueless. I can’t for the life of me believe there isn’t 1 African American officials who is not only good enough, but should also be rewarded for his/her contribution to the game. The officials, coaches, and schools were all publicly reprimanded for this absurd display. Sounds like the IHSA should reprimand itself for failing to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Now we're going to have quotas on each game?

Sometimes you have to look beyond the town where people live. I live in a town of 4000 people, but I travel a good distance to work big school "city" hoops because I enjoy it quite a bit.

I think it falls on the IHSA -- they should have those guys' schedule in front of them (maybe they don't, but they should -- we have to submit our schedule to a site that's accessible by everyone, including the state office). Before a crew gets assigned a game, someone should be looking at their schedule and seeing if that crew is used to working that kind of basketball.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Rich

Now we're going to have quotas on each game?

Sometimes you have to look beyond the town where people live. I live in a town of 4000 people, but I travel a good distance to work big school "city" hoops because I enjoy it quite a bit.

I think it falls on the IHSA -- they should have those guys' schedule in front of them (maybe they don't, but they should -- we have to submit our schedule to a site that's accessible by everyone, including the state office). Before a crew gets assigned a game, someone should be looking at their schedule and seeing if that crew is used to working that kind of basketball.

- Less quotas and more common sense. There are enough good officials that diversity should not be an issue. It's not like they would have to fast track a minority to get this accomplished.

- Most of these guys are not as much of a go getter as you. I did work in the Southern IL area, so I am pretty well versed with the average level of competition. I sanctioned in Missouri and went across the river to get more diverse games.

- I agree that is squarely falls on the IHSA. Coaches are the only rating we get now. We will see after this year how well that works.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Now we're going to have quotas on each game?

You do not have to have quotas any more than you would do when assigning a game from people from a different area. You know dog gone well that if two teams were playing each other it would make no sense to assign the officials from only one of the towns playing. Even if the officials were totally above board or integrity, that alone would be raised by someone if something went wrong in that game. You have an all-African-American team where the use of a racial slur was apparantly used and a player was not ejected for that usage. You think that if an African-American on that game might have helped deal with those kinds of claims? And yes, that was the one apparently caught, not the only accusation.

Originally Posted by Rich

Sometimes you have to look beyond the town where people live. I live in a town of 4000 people, but I travel a good distance to work big school "city" hoops because I enjoy it quite a bit.

But in this state many people do not travel all over the place to work games. There are only a handful of "cities" in Illinois and they are nothing like Chicago or the area of Chicago.

Originally Posted by Rich

I think it falls on the IHSA -- they should have those guys' schedule in front of them (maybe they don't, but they should -- we have to submit our schedule to a site that's accessible by everyone, including the state office). Before a crew gets assigned a game, someone should be looking at their schedule and seeing if that crew is used to working that kind of basketball.

They do. But that does not mean that who you assign are prepared for the possibilities.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Not only did they not have an African-American on that crew, there are almost never a single Chicago area official that is working that level at any other time. And in many cases there are often officials from other parts of the state that work the 3A-4A State Finals from southern or central Illinois when most of the schools are from the Chicago area. You could have had 3 white guys on the game and if one or two were from the Chicago area or Peoria or Springfield or other areas that had normal access to these kinds of teams (like Seton) then this would have made the situation a better.

We always talk about perceptions, sometimes you have to squash the perception even when there is not a real problem. When the 3A-4A Finals come out, the state bends over backwards to get Chicago area officials and even get guys from other parts of the state where most of the teams at those classes are not surrounded by. I know if I was working a game in the Chicago area with an team of one race/community against another program with a similar difference, they would have a racial mix with the crew for the most part. Assignors would do that just to not have to deal with the coaches complaining about someone or the crew did not represent them on some level.

I used to live in Central Illinois (Macomb) and that is where I started my career. When I moved to the Western Suburbs and had to officiate games, it was an adjustment to the speed and size that I saw previously in my career. I even officiated a bigger school game in the Mid-State 6 in Peoria one time and that was a huge adjustment just for me at the JV or sophomore level. Well Seton had two D1 players on them and Harrisburg had at least 1 in that game. That had to be an adjustment for those officials and the championship game was not the time to learn that lesson.

Peace