Delay Of Game ...
 

Sometimes it's the simplest things that get me confused.

A1 has designated spot throwin. B1 is aggressively defending the throwin, to the point of reaching over the boundary line. As I'm just about to sound my whistle for a delay warning (no previous warning), A1 releases the ball for the throwin and B1 reaches across the boundary and knocks the passed ball away. Since I was about to charge the delay, I went with a delay warning, and had a do-over.

I know that if B1 hit the ball out of A1's hands, it would be a technical foul. I also know that if B1 hit A1 on the hand before the ball was passed, it would be a intentional foul.

Did I handle this correctly? I know that I should know this, but I'm drawing a blank. I hate it when I question myself on the simplest things, but I would appreciate some closure here. I can't find this specific situation in the casebook. Maybe it's there, but I can't find it.

I'm quite sure there is something in the rule book about a defender reaching over the throw-in plane and touching a released pass.

For a defender to touch the released pass while the ball is still over OOB area is legal. (9-2-10)
For the offense to do so is illegal.

Give That Man A Cigar ...
 

Bingo. There it is, the reason why this play confused me. So my instinct to charge the delay of game, for over the boundary, before the release, was correct. If the defender had waited to go over the boundary until after the release, then I've going nothing, unless the ball goes out of bounds, and then it's just an out of bounds violation.

I was lucky this time, but it still continues my streak of thirty-three years and never making a bad call.

Now, if after a score, the defender reaches over the OOB plane, and touches a pass between his opponents' teammates, it is illegal.

Bingo #2
 

Correct. Then it's the same as the defender reaching across to touch the ball while still in the in-bounder's hands -- a team technical.

The situation cited above is, BTW, why it's important to train officials never to casually leave the endline prior to the actual release of the inbounds pass. This habit, if engrained by casuality or indifference, will carry over to that rare occasion when the need to observe these kinds of plays and violations arises. The fallback to guessing will kick a guy in the butt. Therefore, trail--be trail. Don't leave that endline early on a throw-in.

Let's be real, this will only happen if there is full court pressure. In the absence of full court pressure this isn't an issue and I can assume most of us will leave the endline when we see fit to leave the endline. In most cases it will be early.

If there is full court pressure why in the heck would you be running out ahead of the ball?

In 3-man, there is no reason to leave the end line early. I still occasionally catch myself doing it, and try to immediately correct myself.

I agree that in 3-man, for the most part, there isn't. But the reality is that it happens, and within 3 steps the kids are ahead of us anyway. My point was that when this violation were to occur there is no reason for the T to be off the endline. It's a full court press!

Me too, but I don't see much difference, in this aspect, between 2 and 3.

Where Are My Car Keys ???
 

Team technical? I believe it's a player technical, but I can be convinced otherwise.

You are correct, this would be a player T (as opposed to the team T that gets assessed if he happens to be the second player to break the throw in plane).

Eratta
 

You're correct. Thank you for calling me out on my error. :) -- 9.2.10A.
Though violating the boundary plane by the defender after a warning had been previously issued (without contacting the ball) IS a team technical -- 10-1-5c.
Repeated violation of this is (even without contacting the ball) merits a player technical -- 10-3-5d.

I question that assumption and I know it's drilled to NOT do it at all the camps I've attended.

In normal transition, after a made basket, with no full court press it's been my experience that very few officials stand on the endline or behind it and only when the ball is inbounded do they start moving up, especially in 2 man. By the time the ball is inbounded the T is usually couple feet behind the play anyway, but as to actually waiting behind the inbounder all the time, I just don't see it. We cheat out here way more often than we do as the T on rebounds, and that is also something that is drilled NOT to do. It's just what happens most of the time in an effort to (1) not get beat and/or (2) get a jump on what we know/assume is coming.

I prefer waiting and jogging just a slight bit faster while the pg brings the ball up. Cheating doesn't do me any good on this play.

Bob x 2
 

Ditto.

Those who leave early around here betray their propensity to not have to hustle upcourt as trail.
Leave early = more time to walk and look lazy.
Albeit it is sometimes true that for trail to be trail it mandates a walk, particularly with a team who walks the ball upcourt.

Yep.

So let me make sure I get this straight. Team A throwin in all situations.
B1 reaches across the plane and is called for DOG warning. Later B1reaches through the plane and team B is assessed a team TF. Later still B1 reaches through the plane and is assessed a player TF.

Next scenario. Team A throwin. B1 reaches through plane and receives DOG warning. Later B2 reaches through the plane and a team TF is assessed. Later still B3 reaches through the plane and B3 is assessed a Personal TF.

Is that right?

No.

The repeated part is not about different points of the game...it is a about continuing to do so time after time.

Legal in NFHS (had it in a game on Friday night), but illegal in NCAA.

So right in a row, not with other legal throwing in between? So in theory you could have multiple team techs for plane violations throughout the game and no player techs?

Who's On First ???
 

Since the warning, and then the technical fouls, are charged, and recorded, by the official scorekeeper, to the team, not to individual players, I would have no idea, and the official scorekeeper would have no record, of which individual players were involved in previous violations, especially if some of the violations were called by my partner.

What's that? ;)

You're only going to get a 10-3-5 T if someone is either just clueless or trying to make a mockery of the game or drawing attention to himself, etc.

I like it when you guys quote rules to go along with your responses. I just learned a detail that the defender can reach over the boundary plane after the ball is released by the thrower. I never picked up on that nuance of the rule until I read it again along with this discussion.

Copy And Paste ...
 

It's getting harder and harder to do so since the NFHS has made internet copies of it's rulebooks, and casebooks, with the ability to copy, and paste, sections, unavailable, even to members.

I'm presently copying, and pasting, sections from a 2011-12 rulebook, and a 2011-12 casebook, and I'm not sure how much longer these old pdf books will be relevant.

Typing from the paper books? Fuhgeddaboudit.