Best way to handle?
 

Crew debate on how to best (mechanically) to handle a situation...

L has the ball go out of bounds at the end line but either doesn't have a good look or the ball may have been touched bang - bang and L needs help. As L his whistle is blown and his hand goes up.

1) Hold hand up - look at T for help - wait for T to either give a direction or go to a alternate possession signal?

2) Hold hand up - look at T for help - come together to discuss and then give a directional signal?

3) Hold hand up - verbally ASK T for help. wait for T to either give a direction or go to a alternate possession signal.

Agree. I just make eye contact with raised eyebrows and say "HELP" out loud.

Help ...
 

That's exactly what I do, after sounding my whistle, and exactly what I discus with my partner in our pregame.

I will actually say, "Help Bobby?", in essence, giving the call to him.

Some guys don't like to verbalize, and would rather read body language, but I'm not shy about, literally, asking for help.

Either way is a lot better than what we used to do back in the olden days, waiting for the trail to slyly point a finger in the right direction.

This is how I do it too.

I was also taught that if you're the one being asked, come out strong and firm - like you saw it, have the call, and are confident. Don't want to be wishy-washy or seem indecisive.

Depends on my partner
 

I'f I'm with my regular partner, we have a system. Hold the hand up, eye contact means HELP. If he knows, he makes the call. If he doesn't, he shrugs and I make the AP call. Working with someone different, I verbalize a 'help' if I need to.

And if you don't have it, go right to C (or T, if C is the one being asked).

And, I agree that a "look" can be asking for help, as long as both individuals are aware of this.

Whistle plus 'stop clock' mechanic; loudly ask for "Help!" while looking directly at my partner; partner loudly verbalizes color and gives directional signal.

My partner did this from L at a camp...neither of us (I was C and it went out near the opposite corner) saw who touched it last. We went by the book and went to the arrow. During the video session with the evaluator afterwards we were told, in a rather matter of fact tone, that we should NEVER leave our partner hanging. "Give him the direction!" When we asked what we should do if we didn't know he just yelled "GIVE HIM THE DIRECTION!"

Okay...not sure I agree with this approach...but Okay.

For some reason, saying "Help" is frowned on around here. Instead, we stop clock and say "Partner". Not sure I see much difference, but oh well.

Haven't really heard that "Help" is frowned upon but I do say "Partner". I guess it may sound a little better...leaving less room for a coach to turn it against you.

That's pretty much what we have been told...Coach can't say something stupid like "Why do you need help?". But they really can say that...kind of 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

Old school
 

Have always got together, takes the guesswork out of it

How's that? If the calling official needs help, what is he contributing to the conversation?

I do not see why you need to "ask" for help loudly. If I am holding my hand up wiht no direction, my partners should know (or I would think they would know) I did not see the entire play. I guess that is regional, but often not needed around here. There are some that will say something, but looking at their partner does the trick.

Peace

In these parts, verbalizing "help" is expected. I once got reprimanded by a supervisor for not saying it loud enough so that everyone was aware I needed help.

If I'm asking for help, please don't give me an "I don't know" shrug.

Per the NFHS officials manual ... 2.3.2. D. 3 (Two person)
When the ball goes out of bounds and the responsible official needs help, he/she should look in the direction of the other official. That official should be prepared to give assistance. If the responsible official asks for assistance, the other official should verbally and visually signal the appropriate call - the officials do not need to confer in this situation.

(Three person) 3.3.2. D. 4

When the ball goes out of bounds and the responsible official needs help, he/she should look in the direction of the nearer official or the official sharing that area of responsibility. That nearby official should be prepared to give assistance. If the responsible official asks for assistance, the nearby official should verbally and visually signal the appropriate call - the officials do not need to confer in this situation. On the other hand, if a non-responsible official has information regarding the out-of-bounds call, he/she may quickly approach the calling official to share the information and then leave the call to the responsible official.

Related
 

If you are the one being asked for help, do you only verbalize and point?

As soon as I'm asked, I crack the whistle, then verbalize and point. Basically I'm taking the call once asked by my partner to take the call.

Anyone else?

It's not your call -- it's still your partner's call.

And, the ball is already dead and you're not reversing anything, so there's no need for a whistle.

So, just point and verbalize the color. The partner should then mimic that.

So in cases where you are reversing something, you do crack your whistle?

In cases where I'm offering information, such as RA assistance, I don't crack whistle, I just come in and offer information. I let the calling official do all the work.

In cases where I have definite knowledge that someone else tipped the ball before it went OOB, I also don't crack whistle, I just run in and give information and let my partner either reverse or not.

However, the above mentioned play is the only time I do this.

That's interesting. Maybe I'm doing it backwards :confused:

That's how I do it. Sometimes with, sometimes without the whistle.

When I get information from my partners, and I am reversing my own call, I do hit my whistle.

If I'm reversing my own call (based on input from other officials), then, yes, I blow my whistle.

I recognize that what I typed before was confusing.

Works well most of the time, but I've seen what looked like a silent ask for help that turned into a mess. The off official saw the partner pause and look at them (or so they thought) and gave a signal just as the responsible official gave a signal....an opposite direction. The calling official was just "processing" the play before making the decision....a little slow...and the other official took that as an ask for help.

Which is why I prefer a verbal "help".

I guess it depends on how you are taught. Around here everyone seems to know that if you have not signaled and looking toward your partner, you are asking for help. And verbally not everyone can hear you either.

Peace

Here you hit you whistle and look at your partner. They then give you a discrete point one way or the other by using their index finger right in front of their midsection. Calling official then signals. Usually there is so little delay no one even knows you asked for help.

If a partner looks to me for help either verbally or non if I have definite knowledge I blow my whistle and point as if it was my call all along.

I think everyone in our area went to this camp. Everytime, I see an official look for help on an out-of-bounds play, the other official always sees it and gives him a direction. It's uncanny. I haven't seen an alternating possession in this situation in years. Sometimes, I want to argue with the partner that "there's no way you saw that clearly", but they do such a darn good job selling it with authority. Darn!

Here's a hint about this. There's about a 0% chance I'm putting 2 thumbs in the air if a partner asks me for help.

Guessing Game ???
 

And what if you were watching for an illegal screen your primary coverage area and didn't see the ball go out of bounds? Are you still not putting up two thumbs?

Yes, that's what he is saying. And that's what the camp observer was trying to convey also.

Remember, he is not telling YOU or ANYBODY ELSE what to do, he is saying what he would do.

That's what I'm saying.

Two Thumbs Up ...
 

This has definitely got to be a "When in Rome ..." thing. Two, or more, officials, who have absolutely no idea who last touched a ball, that subsequently goes out of bounds, with a rule in their pocket that allows them to remedy this situation with a held ball, and instead, an official mentally flips a coin?

Well, we pretty much do the same thing here with train wrecks. If we don't know to call a block, or a charge, we are told to guess, and then to sell the call.

Easy Call, For Everyone But ...
 

I've given this a little more thought. Let's say that it's not a difficult out of bounds call, it just that (in a two person game) both officials didn't see the play.

The lead, tableside, is closely watching a very physical matchup in the opposite tableside post position. The trail is closely watching some possible "ugly" illegal screens near the opposite tableside wing. A long pass is thrown from A1, unguarded, near the table, toward deep wing A2, also table side, who is guarded by B2. The pass misses all twenty fingers by an inch, and goes out of bounds on the lead's endline. Everybody in the gymnasium, including the two coaches, knows who caused the ball to go out of bounds except the two officials. Lead sounds his whistle, holds up his open hand to stop the clock, and looks to the trail for help. The trail, schooled by this camp observer, mentally flips a coin, loses the coin flip, and calls, and signals, A ball.

This just doesn't seem right, but like I said earlier, it's one of those "When in Rome ..." situations.

My answers always apply to 3-man unless otherwise noted. And as I do still go to camp, I understand the philosophy being espoused that, between 3 very competent officials, someone needs to know who last touched the basketball. It had to have happened in somebody's primary.

In your situation, a brief look at the players starting for the other end of the floor is all you need to make the call.

I just don't know how many times it can be said. There are clinicians who consider it poor officiating to NOT have a call amongst the crew (and that includes 2-man for many of them).

Hopefully with 3, someone will have a good look at the play. With 2, the odds are much less likely that, when the primary official gets thier line blocked, the other official will have a look at all.

If I'm the one asked for help, if I don't know anything I will give a subtle shrug or shake of the head. If I'm the one asking, and I get 0 help, if I have an educated guess based on player reaction or anything at all, I'll go with that. But if nobody has any idea at all, I see the arrow as the least of the evils. Having said that, I don't recall the last time I used the arrow in this situation.

This. The players will almost always give it away with their first step. If both teams start heading one way, you probably ought to point that way.